CCP's community policies could use some updating/creating

Communications Center General Discussion
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So bear in mind these are forum moderating policies, but forums do set the tone for the rest of the game. I poked a CSM member about it, who called it ancient, and that with policies like this in place things are likely done on a case-by-case basis.

But the wording of these policies and the prescribed list of “no-no’s” combined with the reprimand system imply you can dox people 5 times on their forums before getting a 180 day ban. And these are just on the forums, which we can reasonably say these standards apply in-game to an extent. They do leave room for more severe punishments, but still.

here we have the terms of service for the game itself: https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/terms-of-service-en

now it’s important to note that the “where” you may not do things is not explicitly said anywhere. Because of this, it’s not known if CCP can choose to step in and do something when something happens, like if it’s on someone else’s forums, a live stream, reddit, or a discord call, or they can do nothing as it didn’t happen within the confines of their gaming world. Surely when something significant happens, pressure from the community will count for something, I’ve seen it happen in other communities.

Now let’s say Jared Fogle, a known and convicted sex offender of children (I was careful to use a real person as this is a legal fact not an allegation), got out on parole and decided to play Eve Online. Should he be banned right away? My answer is yes, since eve online is a game and a community, and we don’t want people like that in our community.

But this brings me back to my original point, there is no community/standards guideline, at least visible to me, anywhere. CCP has had nearly 20 years of experience to know what kind of player they want in their game and what behaviors are acceptable and absolutely unacceptable, they should work with the CSM to finalize this list for their community.

If people are having trouble processing CCP’s actions in regard to controversial issues, just know that they probably have issues with deciding when to get involved due to lack of a voice and poorly worded guidelines. In these situations, where we lack any clear guidance and any statement from the company itself, mob mentality begins to rule, and no one wants that.

TLDR: CCP need clearer community guidelines to cover what cannot be done off platform, or on certain platforms, so it is easier to know when to get involved and players aren’t left in the dark.

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The only people who want clear cut rules are the ones who want to know exactly how close they can get with their terrible behaviour without being punished for it. Also, it doesn’t state anywhere you can dox people 5 times.

You’re just trying to create drama and/or virtue signalling because of what’s happening.

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This is not true. The reprimand policy and the specifically restricted content in use together dictate the action one can anticipate. In this case, Doxxing isn’t allowed, and the reprimand policy is

  • 1ST OFFENCE – WARNING
  • 2ND OFFENCE – 14 DAY SUSPENSION
  • 3RD OFFENCE – 30 DAY SUSPENSION
  • 4TH OFFENCE – 90 DAY SUSPENSION
  • 5TH OFFENCE – 180 DAY SUSPENSION
  • 6+ OFFENCES – 180 DAY SUSPENSION

Coupled with this listing, leniency may be applied when issuing a posting suspension if a period of more than 12 months has elapsed between the current warning and any previous action. This leniency lies entirely at the discretion of the EVE Universe Community Team.

*correction, redirect to TOS

How is this virtue signaling?

CCP needs to define what is and isn’t acceptable in their community and it needs to be published regardless of if you think I’m virtue signalling.

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You very conveniently left out a part. As said: drama and virtue signalling.

“Please be aware that if a transgression of the rules is severe enough, this policy may be bypassed completely in favor of permanent revocation of a forum user’s posting privileges.”.

Keep the terribleness of your alliance on your own forums, thanks.

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At this point it’s clear to anyone with eyes you’re the one who is drama baiting. Community guidelines are needed in part to dictate standards to the community, and I didn’t “leave that out” of my post as it’s both a source and I stated “They do leave room for more severe punishments, but still.” in my original post. You have nothing but vitriol to spew but your point has been made, I’m here for any other constructive conversation if another community member would like to contribute.

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Unnecessary. Posting ever more clear and concise rules generally only helps the rule-breakers.

This is a game, not a high security government job. No game company in the world is going to try to police players backgrounds, profiles and in or out-of-game actions with a carefully defined behavioral guide.

It’s why game “Terms of Service” all include this type of language:
25. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any user’s account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.

26. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.

You don’t need elaborate policies when they can default to: “If someone is doing something wrong, report it. If the report is substantive, we’ll look at it. If the issue requires action, we’ll take any action we like. If we get it wrong, too bad.”

Posted policy is no substitute for good judgement.

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signs-batman

@ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode

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So you’re basically wanting CCP to monitor and police players out-of-game activities and punish them in-game for it. No thanks…

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Why is this person reading the forum policies when the EULA is what they are enquiring about?

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Drama and/or virtue signalling. He probably got his reddit account banned for being terrible, so now he continues here.

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@Kezrai_Charzai i’ll get to your post later as it is more detailed and deserves more consideration. I don’t agree that clearer guidelines make it easier for rulebreakers to break rules, and would like to start on that point,

@QuakeGod they already do monitor out of game activities and pick and choose when to get involved. This should be reserved for community bannable cases such as doxxing, death threats, and pedophilia

@Ramona_McCandless It’s all inter-connected and the EULA loops back around to the terms of service which is being directly criticized here

@Aisha_Katalen Again, spewing vitriol.

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And how, exactly, do they monitor that? CCP has no clue who I am or what I do out of game…

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No it doesnt. The game EULA and forum policies are in no way connected and neither should they be.

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(Not really a reply for Ramona but since the issue was raised)

In standard gaming service usage:

  • The EULA (End User License Agreement) is more the technical terms of where, when and how you can use the software, services, forums and access to the product. It also generally defines legal rights and payment issues. However even the EULA will contain a ‘behavior’ restriction or two such as EVE’s EULA Section 2 D. “Inappropriate Conduct or Communication” and Section 6.A-5.
    EVE Online - End User License Agreement - EVE Community

  • The Terms of Service is generally more about the “Code of Conduct”, the parameters of behavior that is acceptable for the user and the service provider. That’s where you see the more explicit “what actions you can/can’t take” lists.
    EVE Online - Terms of Service - EVE Community

  • The Forum and Chat Moderation policies are simply informal guidelines and generally not legal documents at all. They almost all boil down to “behave decently and with respect to others, and if you don’t we’ll chat ban you”. Primarily they’re there so when a moderator has to come down on someone they can just link the rules and say “There they are, that’s why”.

The OP appears to be looking for a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist and already has “carte blanche” solutions where needed.

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And how, exactly, do they monitor that? CCP has no clue who I am or what I do out of game…

With sufficient evidence it is possible to prove someone said or did something out of game. For example, hatespeech. Players and alliances themselves react to such displays of ignorance and punish/purge if necessary, depending on context, however it’s possible to get someone banned based off what they said in or in a a voice call with sufficient evidence linking the user’s voice to their account

The line where CCP must step in and investigate serious and severe issues has not been defined. Nor have the standards been dictated for what they want to see in the community. This is something that the CSM have direct input on, and is a serious topic that should take into consideration international standards rather than local ones.

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EVE will never be 1984, no matter how much you want it to be…

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Wow, what bait, and trolling OP,

Keep your alliance nonsense in your own forums.
The only person I see here that should be banned is you, for trying to get CCP to police people in the real world.

I have a better idea. If you don’t like it, why don’t you leave, instead of trying to get people behind your awful policy and use them to force people you don’t want in the game out.

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You do know that during the Bonus Room fiasco, the person making hate speech was regarded as the victim?

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how about being nice with eachother and …
well thats it

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I think you mistake the intention. CCP has had a habit of getting involved when they don’t need to, and not getting involved when they need to. The bare minimums for community guidelines haven’t been established. These are threats to both people in the community and to the community itself.

@tutucox_Khamsi if only things were that simple. In any peaceful society, someone will seek to prey on it or disrupt the status quo.