Damn some good people commented on that thread and they still didn’t actually take heed to any advice.
You know, of course I knew that there are “especially gifted people”, but this is the first time I’ve seen people like you. So you need to be able to lie.
And now, in order, we will close our discussion with you personally:
Yes, the unstable capacitor on Ammar ships using laser turrets and tank armor, compared to the fitting of other ships, is bad and I have already written why. Read what I wrote above. You cannot comprehend what I have written, these are not my problems, but yours.
I have not written anywhere that laser turrets are bad. Stop lying. I wrote that those bonuses that have laser turrets are not comparable to their energy consumption.
I wrote in sufficient detail about the factors that you listed in my posts above and outlined my position on these bonuses. I’m not going to rewrite my messages several times. But I especially recommend you to look at the screenshot where Tachyons are installed on Abbadon. And most importantly, do not forget to look at the values of the power grid. And by the way, no one has provided any reasonable objections to my statements, justifying that my position is not correct.
Did I write somewhere that any of the people who answered me on this topic are dumb? You can’t lie out of the blue.
And in the future, if you continue to blatantly lie, twist what I said, take my words out of context, then you risk hearing a lot of unpleasant expressions and words in your address.
If you have constructive and, most importantly, reasonable criticism, I am ready to listen to it. If you don’t have it, you’d better shut up. I respect other people and the rules of this forum, but if you continue to behave like this and blatantly lie, I can make an exception for you.
Oh gods. I’d almost forgotten that one.
Cap stability is neither needed nor desirable in most cases.
The sacrifices you need to make on most fits to achieve cap stability leaves you vulnerable in many other areas.
I’ll give you an example.
Let’s take the Imperial Navy Slicer. This excellent little ship has been min/maxed heavily over the years to the point where there’s really only one major choice to be made: beams or pulses as the weapon system.
In neither case is the Slicer cap stable. Fire up the ancillary armour repper along with the mwd and long point and you’ll cap out in well under a minute even with pulses. (With that said, yes I’m aware of the various meme ab/scram fits that can work very well in the confines of a faction warfare plex)
With beams, you’re not even remotely cap stable with the mwd and point while firing your guns, let alone using the repper.
So, if the face of it, a beam Slicer is a terrible fit.
And yet, it’s actually very, very good in the right hands. You need to recognise that weakness and manage your cap carefully. With most ships, you’ll get your long point on the enemy as early as possible in the fight. With a beam Slicer, you need to wait until the enemy tries to escape and then fire up that long point.
More than that, you need to actively fly the ship to reduce transversal and maximise your hits, all while staying out of scram range.
Pulse Slicer is a tricky ship to fly well, but with scorch being so good, most people can figure it out.
Beams are another level of difficulty altogether. If you can pull it off, you’re rewarded with amazing damage output and excellent projection.
Again: neither fit is cap stable. Beams have cap issues right from the start. Yet both fits are very good for small gang or solo derping around.
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Please stay on topic, this is not about power grid of laser turrets on Amarr ships but about Capacitor consumption of laser turrets on Amarr ships.
From your very first post in the OP:
This tells anyone reading your first wall of text that you are looking for GOOD — aka „All Amarr ships I found are BAD“ — laser ships (excepting the shield paladin and nightmare).
If your best defense is „I called people names but it wasn’t literally the word ‚dumb‘,“ then I am happy to have you correct me with your actual real record of name calling which includes hits like „try turning on the brain“ which — drumroll please — is calling someone „dumb“. Surprise, I wasn’t lying!
Stop lying. You have demonstrated you will absolutely reject any and all feedback, demand „screenshots“ out of fear that words may be correct (like you did to me), call people names like „turn on brain“, tell people like me to „shut up“, and shout „stay on topic“ when people try to rightfully make arguments that put things in context.
There’s approaching 100 posts in this thread and not a single one has made you reconsider your closed-minded position. Stop lying that you are „ready to listen“ to „constructive and reasonable points“. I respect other people and the rules of this forum, but if you continue to behave like this and blatantly lie, I can make an exception for you.
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Fine, attached are screenshots of re-balanced Tachyons and Mega Pulse lasers. Notably, I have balanced their capacitor usage as follows:
- Tachyon IIs:
- Old
Activation Cost: 76 GJ - New
Activation Cost: 12.74 GJ
- Old
- Mega Pulse Laser IIs:
- Old
Activation Cost: 36 GJ - New
Activation Cost: 9.8 GJ
- Old
For some reason you are still obsessed with powergrid usage, so I balanced those too:
- Tachyon IIs:
- Old
Powergrid Usage: 3,712 MW - New
Powergrid Usage: 2,079 MW
- Old
- Mega Pulse Laser IIs:
- Old
Powergrid Usage: 2,750 MW - New
Powergrid Usage: 1,617 MW
- Old
Attached are the full module parameter screenshots as you requested. A bunch of off topic parameters are tweaked to be 100% certain CCP Games considers them balanced, but you’ve already made it very clear that discussing those is off topic and that it is “nonsense” that you don’t want to discuss.
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It’s AMARR goddamn. You don’t even care enough for the issue to learn the correct names for the things you talk about. It also is ABADDON - not ABBADON.
Your screenshots only confirm that you are using bad fits and lack the knowledge how to fit and use laser ships.
Skills solve the whole issue you are making, because skills are not limited to the ingame skills but also mean “learning how to use something”, it is meaning “your personal skill”.
We already realized you are a pretty stubborn person that likes to do day-1 mistakes for quite some time.
Beginners ignoring tips based on experience and knowledge from better players make their problem a “beginner’s problem” by definition.
To entirely solve your whole topic:
Slicer, Retribution, Coercer+Navy, Crusader, OmenNavy, Legion, Harbinger+Navy, Oracle, Absolution, NavyApoc, Abaddon, Paladin, Revelation, Avatar
All of them are excellent choices in their ship class, able to rival if not to exceed most competitions performance if fitted and used right. This has been proven over and over for years by the players using these ships.
You can now keep insisting that lasers eat up too much cap or just try to learn one of these ships by asking experienced “pros” how they fly it, what their strengths and weaknesses are and in which kind of situations or against which kind of opponnents they shine or suck. Your choice.
3 Likes
I think all ships should be cap stable if you’ve fitted the intended weapons to it.
Then what is the new downside to lasers?
The disadvantage of lasers is that as soon as you install only laser turrets on the Ammar ship without other modules, your capacitor will be overloaded by 100 percent or more. I attached the screenshots above. And there is simply no adequate compensation for this fact. The laser has the worst tracking, only 2 types of damage and it is less than, for example, hybrid weapons.
It was a reply to the above stating that laser hulls should be cap stable with the guns.
As for the capacitor problems, that is often-usually adequately compensated, as shown by widespread use of lasers. Your opinion is the fringe position that all of them are using too much cap and need a 60%+ reduction in cap use.
Do I have a marginal position? Did you come up with this yourself or was it told by someone? Personally, I and a very large number of people have the opposite opinion to yours. Moreover, many people consider people like you to be marginals.
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So far, you have one other person who supports you that you can show. Got any evidence of said wide support?
You can show it, the question is, do you understand a language other than English? Can you at least turn on the translator on YouTube? And about the fact that no one writes here. And it makes sense to write if there are, for the most part, alternatively gifted people sitting here who can’t analyze the information, but immediately write, like Drx Drx, “May you burn in eternity for your heresy.” Well, here’s the answer to the question of why they don’t write. Because we can’t talk, the level of intellectual development is at a very low level.
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So, no, you cannot supply any such proof, and your insults are weak.
I am not the one with the burden of proof there either.
But I will suggest learning to fit better. Your ANI fit was pretty bad. Here’s a version that is as cap stable or better, with all 3 rig slots empty, has lower cap consumption for effectively identical resists if you have your armor compensations to 5, a hair more overall EHP, and room for a tracking enhancer too.
[Augoror Navy Issue, Better ANI]
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
10MN Afterburner I
Large Cap Battery II
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]
Hornet II x3
And easy optimizations that improve your fits so dramatically that I can add utility, and remove rigs for cap stability to be used as you see fit, while making your tank less cap dependent is part of why we’re not taking your position as seriously as you might want.
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- Grow a brain cell
- Grow a second brain cell
- rub brain cells together.
- profit
- You are not in court, so that someone has the burden of proof.
- I have given my arguments, you…Well, if you consider the writing that you tried to write here to be proof. Okay, for your level, maybe it will do.
- I haven’t insulted you yet. So far, I haven’t insulted you, but I see you really want me to do it. If you don’t know what an insult is, open the dictionary and read it.
- If I need something from you, which is unlikely, I will write to you. Although, what could I possibly need from a man like you?
- Did I ask you to provide your own version of the ship’s fit? I don’t think so.
- For you personally. You don’t have to offer me something when you’re not being asked, and I won’t tell you which place you need to go.
- What you take seriously there and what you don’t, I don’t care at all. For me, you are a person with insufficient intelligence, with all the consequences that follow from this. Therefore, to continue any dialogue with you is like treating yourself with disrespect. I hope I explained it clearly?
PS. Max Deveron this also applies to you.
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By custom, the burden of proof is always on the claimant.
Your arguments are that one of the most popular types of weapons needs to have it’s primary drawback reduced by 60% or more, because you don’t like fitting around this issue, but the fits on your killboard are TRASH. 4 hardeners to cover all 4 resistances is -6gj/s, and 2 medium batteries on a ship with PG for days is a total waste. People are trying to save you from yourself, because it’s obvious you’re not good at this.
Condescension, especially unearned, is an insult.
Basic fitting advice, help with math, tutoring in english grammar, understanding of game balance principles, advice on how to be persuasive and have a better chance of getting people to listen to what you want.
No, but I try to teach people the basics of fitting anywhere I go. It’s why what rigs would be best are left for an exercise in tailoring it to fit your needs.
Good. I’m offering you advice in how to be better in almost every aspect of this thread, and how to construct a better argument from top to bottom while suggesting that the problem you are pointing to is one where the tools are readily at hand to fix it.
And yet, I have actually used grammatical English, bettered the fit of something you lost in PVE by a wide margin, and showed data that disproves the alleged issue you are having.
You haven’t. There’s a reason that I went through the differences and specific points of comparison with exact modules listed and stats for all of those. Your specific desires are so hard to pin down that all I get is a general “CCP, make lasers not take as much energy across the board but they don’t need to have any other balancing done than a flat buff by removing their downside” since you don’t delve into the math, you don’t go into what the problems are other than they take too much cap, which even has a dedicated rig to reduce this “issue”, 20% in one t1 rig or 25% in a single t2.
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Waste of time, that guy is too dumb to realize that Lasers simply are among the best Weapon Systems in the game and they need their energy consumption costs to prevent them from being totally OP. Even after all the advice in this topic by people using laserboats for years with great success, he still sticks to his stupid ‘must be capstable’ claims which are simpy hilarious. No one but complete newbs need ‘capstability’ in this game and the few occasions where excess cap regen is nessessary for a specific environment can be easily solved by fitting the ship properly. Laser usage in Abyssals, WH, Incursions or Eventsites clearly prove that.
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@Cyberius_Mnemon You asked me for screenshots and I provided them above. I showed how they can be changed to be cap stable.
You just going to ignore that?
At this point it is clear that the OP only came to the forums hoping to see people agreeing with his points, he did not actually come here to learn and improve, thus anyone replying further to him are just wasting their time.
Sadly this seems to be the norm these days.
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