The issue here is not even so much the campers, it’s the people freaking out about them.
The campers are using what I think of as an excellent tactic to cause paranoia in their enemy’s while maybe gaining some intel at the same time.
I went for a little trip into Goonspace to see if I could get an idea of what they were dealing with on the assumption (correct or otherwise) that they, being in a little war and having fairly large holdings in terms of systems they think they own would be a good candidate to see how easy or difficult it was to get into and explore these systems. What I found, especially considering their resources, was surprising.
First, I was able to get into all of their systems with almost no effort, that was a surprise in and of it self considering how easy it has been for me to be caught and killed in the same ship in lowsec.
Second, once I was in their systems I found that they had made absolutely no preparations of any kind to keep me not only from doing as I pleased, but didn’t bother coming after me when I did things like fly uncloaked (I’m using prototype cloaking) right up to vast fleets of carriers, black ops ships and titans. For me it was awesome, I had never seen many of these ships before and made some pretty big mistakes while on grid with them simply because I kept doing things like hitting cloak twice and other idiocy that I excell at.
I’m using Goonspace here simply because they are huge and I don’t know the extent of other large alliances holdings, but I suspect I would find the same thing.
The “problem” of cloaked campers is not one of it “being impossible to counter” it’s a problem of the counter to it being unused and now that it’s too late and the people worried about it are stuck with their inaction.
So, without going into to much detail, if you had thousands of players and vast amounts of resources how would you prevent this sort of problem?
I will give you a hint: cloaking has a whole bunch of very very serious weaknesses.
Also hire the gate campers in places like Rancer, they are not lazy, they know what they are doing, and can catch and kill ships like mine with very fast align time without the use of smart bombs.
Personally I don’t hold what I was able to do against the Goons, I figure they simply didn’t see me as a threat and didn’t care that I was flapping about aimlessly in their systems, but what if I were a threat? They could have had me at any time even if I arrived via wormhole which I did not.
Changing how cloaking works no mater what it’s being used for, and regardless of how attentive the person using it seems if absurd when the people having this problem don’t bother doing the things that can be done to prevent it and are now, now that it’s too late, asking CCP to make life easy for them after the fact.
Before I get flamed for this (again) I should say look at the hint I gave, with a little thought it should become very obvious how to keep this from happening in the future. To me it was instantly obvious and I’m only a little over a year old in Eve.
On a slightly different note I’m considering going into the business of selling bookmarks, it’s all together too easy to make good ones and it’s pretty intense landing on grid with some of these fleets.
I’m what might be called a nullbear.
I mine, I produce, but I don’t pvp unless I’m required to.
I don’t care one bit about cloaked campers.
Yes, they pose an intel issue by making roamers more likely to attack my home, but who cares.
I have intel to watch them come. If I’m not afk, they pose no real additional risk.
Anyone that wants to “fight” cloak campers is really trying to fight to be able to afk in null easier.
It helps bots and afk people only.
Local is just fine to see incoming ships. If someone is alone and there is a slight lag in them showing up, they have plenty of systems between them and me. They will be seen at some point.
If there is a large fleet, or even a medium sized one, same thing applies. Even a slight lag will give them away.
If you’re saying there should be multiple minutes lag, making fast fleets invisible to basic intel, go for it. I keep ships on all the choke points. I will still see them coming.
You simply can’t catch someone with their pants down if they take the right, and enough precautions.
If you want to remove local and make it like wormholes, you really only pose a slightly higher risk. The only thing I won’t see coming is the random wormholes.
I have a scanner alt for that, so very rarely am I unprepared for that as well.
I’ve seen people blasted by those wh gangs, but have never been caught myself. Even in my rorqual that is in the middle of a cycle.
Illidan was wrong. I Am Prepared.
That is all while maintaining 30 mining alts in highsec.
And people logging in directly to your system, and people coming in via black ops bridge. The point is that removing local adds meaningful tools for catching a target that isn’t a clueless idiot.
Nobody is logging directly into the system unless they somehow make it through several systems unnoticed, and unchallenged by the rest of my alliance. Unless they filament, which was already mentioned.
Bridging in requires some intel they don’t usually have. If a cloaked camper provides that intel, more power to them. We have defense fleets itching for content.
Not to mention, if a cloaked camper is present, opsec dictates we operate in another system with our big toys.
The point is, there are very few instances that you’ll catch someone like me.
Too many people cried and quit when they removed local, so I don’t think ccp is going to revisit that anytime soon.
It only gives you the location of a cloaked ship. You’ll still need to decloak it. You don’t automatically land on top of a ship after it’s been probed. I’ve probed stationary ships, warped directly to them and landed up to 10km away. A cloaked ship will remain cloaked.
If they’re not AFK, they can react and either move away from you or warp off. If they are AFK, with some active gameplay you can decloak them.
Oh? You keep intel lists of who went through your systems months ago? Because I can put an offline covert cyno alt in every system you own and log them in as needed for years if I need to. Take away local and your intel system will very quickly lose track of who is present in your space.
Bridging in requires some intel they don’t usually have.
Well yes, but the point is that removing local enables you to gather intel and bring in your attack fleet without immediately giving a giant “IM HERE DOCK UP NOW” warning in local.
Not to mention, if a cloaked camper is present, opsec dictates we operate in another system with our big toys.
And again, this is why local is a problem. Without local you have to consider every single system threatened and either actively protect your big toys or never use them. Local makes it way too easy to only bring them out when you can 100% guarantee that no threat is present and there is no chance of losing them.
Too many people cried and quit when they removed local, so I don’t think ccp is going to revisit that anytime soon.
Unfortunately this is true. Removing local is necessary for the health of the game but the nullbear trash and RMT botters will throw another rage fit and force CCP to give them back their safety.
No, it gives you the presence of a cloaked ship. And most of the time that’s all you need. As soon as the cloaked ship is confirmed to be present anywhere nearby you dock up until it leaves. There’s no longer any possible way to sneak up on a player with an active probe alt running a constant defensive scan.
No for 2 reason :
Cloack is actually overpowered and don’t need any compensation in case of nerf. Just look efficiency of bomber… and look efficiency of capital. And capital have be nerf near to 0.
No beacause CCP chat are already bugged, don’t need to add that.
Only trash pvpbear want remove local, and after they cry when people stop play beacause the game is to unbalance in favor of pvpbear.
I propose to tottaly tremove cloack for same time as blackout have be. And see if the game is more healthy. After all CCP have test blackout to test you’re hupothesis and answer was : No it dont make the game more healthy.
Try my hypothesis and see.