Surprises the hell out of me. Seems like the first thing people do when they move into one of these things is set up Astrahus with clone bay.
I don’t have a problem with not being able to use clones in wormholes, but they really need to up the reward (ISK/hour) for living in one. Nullsec has access to every convenience goodie and toy known to man, and then some. Wormhole space is far worse on convenience and danger, but rewards are mediocre.
Really isk per hour I have seen videos dreads running sites in which earning 750mil an hour. Not to mention you can’t get dropped by a million capitals so I don’t see why wh space is as dangerous as 0.0 can be.
The only issue I have with wh space you need more then 1 account to be based their.
Maybe in a C6. Not in any other class. And no infinite anom respawns, no infrastructure upgrades of space, etc. Logistics is a nightmare. And how are you realistically supposed to maintain a presence in one of these things without access to clone jumping?
Sure. I’m just saying that the rewards don’t scale with the inconvenience and risk. I’m saying that you, the 9 year wormhole resident, are putting up with much more hassle, inconvenience, work, etc. for less rewards and toys than someone sitting in Delve. I’m advocating that you, the 9 year wormhole resident, be compensated better for all your blood and sweat.
Sure you cant get dropped by a million capitals. But you can get dropped by 1000s of ravens with piles of freighters full of more if anyone happens to get their pod out.
I don’t live in a wormhole anymore, but it sure seems like they haven’t made them friendly to large infrastructure or at least in the effort to keeping it.
How many great battles did evicting a wormhole honestly take? The answer is one, and if that feels right that literally trillions are lost because a few pilots died at the wrong time once then great.
But honestly from an outside perspective it sure seems like having the largest infrastructure in the game should have some kind of benefit of “limited” jump cloning at least. Even if all the people in Hard Knocks could all have jump cloned one more time in, would it have changed the outcome? At least it would of felt fairer I think.
A well-organized wormhole-eviction is one of the most boring 3 days in Eve. You have to be constantly vigilant, but nothing will happen usually. It’s just a matter of grinding down the HP of the structures.
The average person super ratting in delve, makes maybe at most, 300 mill an hour.
You can make, 500, 600, 700, 800, a bill in wormhole. Thats a lot more.
The fact that you end up in a shitty wormhole, isnt the games fault. Move out and get into a better one. Its your choice to stay in a crappy wormhole. Its not like its a complete surprise, that you had no idea what kind of wormhole you were in until you deployed a citadel.
If you think its not worth it, then leave the wormhole and find a better one.
The smaller wormholes are both harder to get a lot of people into, because holes collapse, and you cant move larger ships into it, either.
In Nullsec, you can be dropped on by a thousand capitals.
In wormholes, you can reroll and get a wormhole to hisec.
In nullsec, you have to use logistics, and depending on where you are, you have to move jump freighters multiple jumps to get to where you want to go.
If youre living in too much danger and too much inconvenience, blame your corp for having poor abilities to manage danger and logistics.
From what I’ve been able to determine, these kinds of claims are overblown. First off, you are probably splitting that 500-800 bil you describe into several pieces, as there were probably several others running the site with you. Secondly, the site goes ‘pop’ after you’ve finished, and another one doesn’t spawn for how long? A week? Maybe more? Thirdly, it isn’t as if you can just take your capships you were using to rat with, and move to another hole to rinse and repeat. In theory, yes. In practice, it would be like a nullseccer taking his carrier and jumping over into the next system which he has no clue about, so he’s likely dead. Furthermore, even if you wanted to just farm the next wormhole sig that spawns, mass limits and what not will further exacerbate the problem.
People run them solo, with maybe 2 accounts at a time, so yes, its per person.
If you never leave your wormhole, and if youre super unlucky, sure. Its random, so you can have days where you get 12, 15 sites, and days where you have none.
And considering even the class 3-4 wormhole sites give an average of 80 mill to 100 mill each site, and that the whole point of wormholes was that you were supposed to be nomadic and move between holes, which was the original intent of CCP, it makes sense.
As a comparison, the average Haven in nullsec give maybe 20-30 mill each site.
I didnt say capships. When did i say that? People use dual rattlesnakes for a lot of sites. Even marauders.
Yeah, no, its called a scout. In every wormhole corp ive been in, the first advice they give me is to make a scanning alt. Because its useful.
No one is saying that wormholes are noob-friendly, and that any person, any corp can easily get into it. Its hard, but also rewarding, potentially many more times rewarding than nullsec. If youre smart about it, and choose your wormhole wisely, logistics can be easy. Far easier than nullsec. Farming can be easy. Far more profitable than nullsec.
Compare ISK/hour, not ISK/site. Generic carrier ratting in null is 100 mil/hr, give or take. Supers, more. Titans, even more.
You aren’t going to make 800 mil ISK/hour with rattlesnakes, so I assumed you meant C5s or C6s using capships, especially if you are talking solo, which you are. Maybe you meant per site, but per site is a useless metric because we should be talking ISK/hour.
The day you make 800 mil ISK/hour, solo, using a rattlesnake… that’s the day I’m an astronaut. Somebody tell me I’m wrong.
We aren’t debating the utility of scouts. We are debating the utility of finding another ratting site living in a wormhole vs. living in nullsec. In nullsec you pull up your anom scanner and just warp to next site. In a wormhole, it’s scouts, it’s jumping to other holes, it’s this, and it’s that. The point is, that’s time, energy, risk, and pain-in-the-ass factor for you, the wormholer, which the nullseccer doesn’t have to deal with. Again, it’s ISK/hour.
Uh, no. Titans do not give more. Are you kidding me. This just shows how little you know about nullsec life.
And again, no. You are only limited by how fast you run a site based on your optimization and setup. I rat in a supercarrier, but generally, im not very optimized so i make only 180 mill an hour, because im not very intent on making isk this way.
But the ISK/site is very important, because the fact that each SITE gives more isk, means that even a sub-par optimization yeilds more.
Its not like each wormhole site has 100s of spawns, with 100s of battleships. Whats the most you get in a class 4? 35 ships? Do you know how many ships a Haven spawns in nullsec? ATLEAST 45 ships. UP TO 90 ships. NINETY SHIPS a site.
Im not going to trust you when you cant even get the nullsec metrics right, let alone not even know how clones work in wormholes.
But i dont have to, because i never said 800 mill using rattlesnakes. Lets instead watch a youtube vid that shows a guy solo rattlesnaking and making 80 mill in 15 minutes.
So thats around 300 mill easy with one rattlesnake, if you get a chain of sites. Dual rattlesnakes? Could easily move up to 400, 500 mill an hour.
Thats certainly more than Supers ratting.
Since no one told you that anyone was making 800 mill an hour using a rattlesnake, im gonna tell you youre wrong.
Lets put an end to this, once and for all, since you keep constantly ignoring and misrepresenting what ive written.
Can you potentially make more, a lot more isk per hour using dual boxing rattlesnakes in wormholes(plural, not singular) on an average day than you can with supercarrier ratting, along with a cyno alt, in nullsec? Yes or no.
I haven’t ignored or misrepresented anything. I have (essentially) stated that we should be comparing apples to apples. For instance we should be talking ISK/hr, not ISK/site.
I can’t answer this question, because again you are comparing apples to oranges, and we have to compare apples to apples.
Dual boxing is an orange. Single player is an apple. For an apples to apples comparison, ISK/hour, single supercarrier in nullsec vs. single rattlesnake in a wormhole, the supercarrier will easily make more.
If you want to compare dual boxing, then dual box both the supercarrier and the rattlesnake. The supercarrier in null still wins.
No one in a wormhole is ratting seriously especially in anything a c4 or above without having all wormholes being camped in the system. This does not mean D-scan, this means there is a physical ship cloaked at the location of every single wormhole in the system. Anyone that says they are ratting and not doing this is lying.
Saying you are “ratting” in a wormhole with any large ship means you are “soloing” with at least 3 accounts running at the same time, since there will be at least 2 wormholes in any c4 or higher. If there are more wormholes in and out that will require more accounts. Saying you are “soloing” isn’t soloing in a wormhole when “soloing” requires a minimum of 3 accounts.