Moon mining going to be a thing in WH's now?

(Cage Man) #1

I’m wondering with the new changes to Moon Mining if players will be able to now mine moons in WH’s?

This could generate a heck of a lot more new content and active/passive ISK for WH owners.

Let omega lapse for months looking for a reason to come back but don’t know logistics of getting it setup with a 2 man corp + some alts.

(Do Little) #2

My understanding is that you will be able to mine moons in both wormholes and highsec (0.5) but for standard ores only. New moon ores are only available in low and null.

(Abyss Azizora) #3

I do find it strange that CCP added wormholes, a MUCH more dangerous area of eve compared to the incredible safety and ease of nullsec, but made it so much less profitable to live in. At least we don’t have to deal with super capital spam and hotdrops I guess.

(Obil Que) #4

As listed in the EVE Vegas presentations, wormhole moon mining (and moon mining in 0.5 HS) is coming in the Q1 of 2018. It will not be for T2 materials like null-sec and low-sec moons, but will use the same drilling mechanic to get standard ores.

(Piugattuk) #5

But, but, it will ruin nullies profit margins, they are already space poor.

(Tatsuj Khan) #6

Yes, standard k-space ores but +15% better quality. Moon-mining will present another useful group activity for the many wormhole corporations that run industry departments. Maybe we’ll even see rorquals on the field.

Having said that, this is a good feature for j-space because it should also give PvP’ers more opportunities. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Cage Man) #7

But setting up refineries on moons won’t happen for another 3-5 months in Wormhole space for now right?

(Vivianne Athonille) #8

Correct. The beacons, and even the resource seeding, won’t appear until the Upwell 2.0 release in Q1 2018.

The only other thing we know right now is that the same seed value used for Lifeblood moon resources will be used for the WH and 0.5 moons as well, minus the moon goo of course.

(Denngarr B'tarn) #9

Honestly I wish they’d move this up a touch. I’d love to effectively spawn belts in our C4. Guess we’ll keep hitting the “neighbor’s” backyards :slight_smile:

(Bjorn Tyrson) #10

This right here is a MAJOR factor when it comes to safety in wormholes, and one that often gets overlooked. Wormholes are only more dangerous due to the lack of local, but over all, it is much easier for smaller groups to maintain near perfect safety, something that is nearly impossible in null.

Immunity from hot-drops, ability to close dangerous connections if you stumble onto a “bigger fish”, the ability to roll your statics, buying you several hours of near perfect isolation, and the difficulty of bringing in a proper eviction fleet (and reinforcements for said fleet) make wormholes on the whole much safer than null, although certainly less predictable.

Null can be very safe as well (arguably too safe) but it’s safety created by the players far more than by the mechanics (Intel on pipes being the only advantage there. And even that requires active player monitoring to be of any value)

(Duo Roman) #11

This same mechanics allows a group that is looking for content to roll their static and find you right when you are vulnerable.

I would not be so sure. It all deppends on how much people look for content on wormhole space. More people rolling their static certainly means less safety for mining ops, even less safety than null.

(Bjorn Tyrson) #12

If someone is rolling their hole looking for content, it’s really a gamble for when they ‘might’ roll into you. It could be minutes or it could take hours. Meaning that even if someone is actively hunting for you, and has been watching the stats to tell exactly when you are most likely to be crabbing. It’s really a matter of luck on if they will get to you when you are “vulnerable”. And you also get a little bit of warning when the new sig pops up.

In k-space anyone hunting you knows exactly where you are active, how to get there, and can use the IG map to figure out when you are active. There is no guesswork, no random chance factor, if they want to try and jump on you they can at any time and with zero effort. Yes, it’s possible to have scouts a few jumps out or to hell-bubble your gates and try to slow them down that way. But that only mitigates those risks so much. (And a WH group can still end up rolling into you)

(Memdieyn Silverlight) #13

How do you figure wormholes are much less profitable? If your corporation is on the ball then the risk is minimal and the reward is unmatched by anything else in Eve, Unless your bottom feeding in a low class wormhole anyways, The Plexes when done properly with all of the escalation waves is immensely profitable, I’m in a C5 on my primary account and I bring in an average of 1.2 Bill a week on sites alone sometimes more or a little less. Then you have the gas sites and ore belts and here soon you can use the Athanor’s to detonate chunks off of the moons so farming tons upon tons of ore is easy. Then you add in about 2.6 bill per toon for Planetary Interaction, I also do a ton of production so a lot of the minerals I farm are turned around and used for production to make eve more money. The point is wormholes are what you make them it’s easy to give up the first time you get rocked by rats but if you and your corp monitor DSCAN and the probe launcher for new sigs keep cloaked ships on the wormholes to listen for activations if for some reason your not rolling them which you should be. Good luck and fly safe

(Abyss Azizora) #14

Happy to answer that, because the 3.8 billion isk your making per week I can make in one day in nullsec. (Granted that’s really pushing it.) In WH space you don’t have a giant warning siren go off when someone enters system while doing your thing like you do in nullsec. And in WH space you can actually have all your ■■■■ locked into the system and systematically destroyed, along with EVERYTHING in it. (And don’t even try and give me some bullshit about being prepared will prevent that, it won’t, it just reduces the chance.)

I’m not saying WH space can’t be profitable, I know doing capital escalations can be absurdly profitable in C5 and up. (But those are all taken.) But you still make more isk while facing far less risk in nullsec in every possible way. Basically WH space is like shooting yourself in the leg to make the race harder and being penalized for firing a gun from the possible winnings.

(Raleit) #15

any new info?

(Abyss Azizora) #16

Nope, not that hasn’t already been mentioned above.

(Cassie Trojan) #17

EVERY part of space is safer than wormholes simply because ‘local chat’ IS the most powerful intel tool out there. Also id hazard a guess that anyone who thinks small gangs are safer in wormholes than in null clearly hasnt operated in small gangs or solo in wh’s or just missed the fact that null has far more players in it…

(umnikar) #18

simply because ‘local chat’

This is just dump. ‘No local’ only matters if you solo PvE around…
You are flying the easiest space in eve simply because of ‘no cyno’.

(Mephiztopheleze) #19

I’m expecting quite a few more wormholers will start mining once the mechanics hit J-Space. I know I’m looking forward to having my C4 Rorqual get some more use. Black Hole anomaly systems with huge numbers of moons will suddenly become rather sought after homes for those who like to munch rocks.

J-Space is the ‘easiest’ space? I’m sure pretty much everyone who has lived in wormholes would disagree. Logistics are harder and risk is substantially higher.

Our main ‘advantage’ is the ability to, mostly, seal off systems for a limited period of time. This means krabbing takes considerable effort compared to 0.0.

I have to find and roll my static until I find a connection with enough sites that it’s worthwhile bringing out the krabships. Then I have to completely probe that hole out and scout all the incoming connections. After that, I need to bring in some rolling ships and close all those connections, bar the hole home of course.

If I plan on spending a while in there, I’ll often setup a small POS. I also need to make warpin bookmarks on every combat site.

Only once all that’s done, which I refer too as ‘paying the Exploration Tax’, I have ~3 hours of relative safety and can get going. Sometimes I get lucky and this all only takes ~15 minutes. Other times, it may take considerably longer.

Once I’m all good to go and in my sites printing dank ISK, I need to keep a careful eye on my Probe Scanner window for any new sigs. If a new one pops, I need to probe it down and ascertain what kind of sig it is ASAP. Even without new sigs, I’m still mashing my D-Scan.

The dangers, even once the hole is ‘sealed’ are still ever present. A new wormhole may open in my home hole, giving hostiles an entry point. A new WH may pop in my static krabhole that connects to a large group looking for juicy ratters (the commonly used WH ‘tinkersnakes’ run ~1.2b a throw and you need at least two of them).

Those who live in the krabhole may login and start rolling the hole home, or dropping Drifters on me at the end of sites which then ties me down for ~10-15 minutes unless I’m specifically setup prepared to deal with them.

Compare this with 0.0 ratting: undock krabship, warp to anomaly, krab. When that site is done, a new one of the same class respawns in short order. Endless sites to run and a Local Channel to alert me to any hostiles entering system.

I may be safe from some huge capital blob, or BLOPS fleet cynoing in on top of me, but there are many, many other dangers that nullbears don’t have to deal with. The commonly used 0.0 AFK’tars or VNIs aren’t an option in wormholes. It’s all ‘active ratting’ all of the time.

Now, with all of that said, the Risk:Reward ratio is, imho, worth it. One good Krab session can fairly easily net me several billion ISK.

(umnikar) #20

Pretty funny how the average opportunist trying to defend “his” thing.

The hard logistics and high risk you talk about:

  • our blue loot got patched so small so you can put it in a slippery frig.
  • POS fueling got simplified, to make it easier to manage dem all in no time.
  • now we get rid of POS, in citadels we can manage an entire alliance in one big struct, still crying for alliance BMs though :(. Remember how we did this once?
  • the most dangerous wormholes (C5/C6) getting k162 to highsec - just why??? Let alone having just one static.
  • POCOS got owned by players to make sure to max the income and hold players/alts in system.
  • a rolling mechanic nerf got changed back because the flaming was too hard for Fozzie?
  • take a look at the quality of our 3rd party tools to bypass certain mechanics
  • so now it’s time for moon mining!

As it is now I don’t see any place I could play my style as I did before. Last thing I was trying, was removing some abandoned citadels which took me about a week of intense autism to finally kill 2 of 4. Despite the high loot I unsubbed right after that, because I realized I would need to stop RL things to go on with this - quit my job etc…
Sure, I could join a random WH group. This is what eve is about, right? Getting pinged, and jump on it - huray!
Well, I have a toon in null to do things like that and it’s funny by times, but wormhole space always was another game. I took it as this and played it as it was meant to be. Others played the meta and won.

Wormhole corporations have Ore/PI buyback these days! WTF