CODE. Bowheads are useless in Hisec

Communications Center General Discussion
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From what I was told and this may be wrong, but CCP is adjusting the models which will impact bumping, it is however taking time.

CODE can be a lot of fun, however you also have to be careful in terms of player groups that get personal and seek to drive others out of the game, which they at times appear to do, some of the forum stuff can get quite personal, not that this bothers me of course, but some people are less hardy.

Messing with someones head is a perfectly valid strategy in competitive game play, but it has to be sustainable, all in all I think CCP do a damn fine job here, CODE is skillfully set up to be on that line. AG definitely have an impact on gankers, but understand that AG is made up of people who are having fun at the expense of gankers as well as some people who just want to get back at them and of course others that just want to resist them.

CODE does not always win, in fact their active numbers have dropped, but there are some very committed people in CODE.

I did try to gank a bumper once along with someone who had done it before and they had two Macherials and made it very difficult to get on them, we had three Talosā€™s and they very skillfully moved around us to make it very difficult, in the end the gank fleet arrived and blew up the freighter. The victory of sorts was having two Macherials on that freighter, and that does help in understanding AG. It is easy to say, but not so easy to do, I have also tried counter bumping gankers, the only good way is bumping the freighter out of optimal, but they counter that with ship choice.

When you say who flies them solo, well a lot of people do, there was quite a lot of solo type players who do freighter hauling, weird I know, and those people are real risk takers, also there is often a logi man doing hisec hauling for their alliance and many alliances seem to just leave it to that one person with the obvious results. Really anyone who is an enemy of the Goons for example should have a dedicated anti ganking group to cover their hauling in hisec, but it is really an adhoc leave it to people who enjoy it sort of thing, which I find dumb, however I do know people who do it very well and hardly lose stuff.

One thing is that to me the Goons play this game at a different level to others, while CODE downplay their links to the Goons via Miniluv, I happen to think that the activities of Miniluv are very linked in to the trading and industrial play of the main Goon leadership in terms of the alliances wealth. I must say from an intellectual point of view it is great game play.

The webber is not complete safety, as they just need to suicide point the freighter to enable the bumper to get on it, they will do that.

o7

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144

Really informative reply thank you.

I too agree that some play this game on another level, it is an rts and we are all pieces on the board, some people do have an overview of that board and access to many game pieces that may not realise they are pawns, knights or even kings in someone elses game.

I donā€™t see a lot of personal stuff myself, but I may have missed it, I do see CODE agents being very smug and posting ā€˜tearsā€™, but because for me a lot of these people complaining arenā€™t really playing the game at all, and can be very abusive, I often find myself admiring the smug.

I also think, if we only consider James 315ā€™s CODE and what it actually states, and the ā€˜politicalā€™, in the eve sense of political of course, circumstances in which he began his crusade, it is really just the way eve is, I donā€™t see how CODE can lose if they engage with you unless you block them and just log off and donā€™t return- and even then you are responding to them and so pvping, so risk free high sec still isnā€™t a thing.

Basically, they just enforce the fact that CCP made high sec a pvp zone, but one with rules, only CCP can make them lose, and they would have to make high sec a guns off safe zone.

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Dracvlad: What changes would you propose to make AG a legitimate style of play in Eve. Iā€™m not really talking about nerfing CODE., but giving AG the tools to fight back.

I think supporting White Knighting role play would be a huge win for CCP as it would be a counter argument to the people who complain about ganking - ā€œget in a ship and fight back!ā€

In fact, I think AG should have the game mechanics advantage since gankers would still retain the superior profit motivation.

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146

My number one change would be to make bumping less effective, I would rather see ganking fleets chasing down their prey on gates, with that I would expect the AG hunter killer fleets of fast locking frigates and the stuff would produce more interesting play for AG players, even Alpha cruisers to remove DPS, though bumping in itā€™s present form does enable both sides to muster people for a DPS / rep battle. I have seen some more level headed ganker aligned players admit that it would be better without bumping.

Another change I would make in the days of citadels is that the NPC factions refuse docking rights for criminals, this creates another area of play around bases, or people who allow gankers to use their citadels. Thus setting the scene for conflict around ganker bases.

Perhaps a better change then removing bumping as it is, is to give selective white knights an exemption from CONCORD, what that will mean is that the Macherial bumper will then have real risk. This exemption would have to be carefully policed and monitored and the player would have to earn that status and earn the right to keep that status and if the character is sold it drops.

The gankers have certain mechanic advantages like loot scooping via a DST and bumping, what I have suggested above would be cried as nerfing ganking, however to get real conflict you have to make more interesting content where the options to engage in this are at the same level as the gankers, so for example the event that I linked the BRā€™s to above was where a properly set up AG fleet went after a complacent ganker and wrecked him, it is doable if you have people sitting around waiting and ready. Note the use of T1 frigates and a T1 cruiser smart bomber, but do be aware that even destroying that fleet they can quite easily just keep bumping and bring another fleet in and that is where an issue lies in terms of bumping, because a defeat like that and the resources they have mean that they can keep throwing fleets at it.

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Which makes Eve fairly special, I like that about the game.

Well I have been on the receiving end of some of that, however I give back for fun. There are some players who react badly to CODE, and CODE as a setup is designed to annoy the hell out of itā€™s targets, but many of those people complaining may well be CODE troll posting to push their agenda. If you sat around AG enough you would find that the majority have no issue with gankers and that they have grudging respect for some of the CODE players, they just find their meta gaming, misuse of certain mechanics and smug posting a bit much, but then again it is designed to do that.

So from the point of this I give back on their smug posting, it can be funny, I was enjoying Ima trying and failing to wind me up.

It is indeed very well setup, one player who was in Miniluv said that James315 set up CODE because he was butt hurt over the can flipping changes, in a way if this is true and it could be, then it is a highly effective reaction to that change and also interesting gameplay in that a group of players are going after the casual segment to punish CCP because the game was changed to make it more difficult to grief people. I find that highly amusing, and I would give credit to CCP by being even handed with CODE if that is the case, because if it is, I am sure they know it.

There is an issue in terms of casual play in Eve and I touched upon this in my earlier reply, it takes a lot of time and investment to do things in this game which can be removed very easily, this is why you end up with so much emotional capital in low return areas such as hisec. I have a mate that almost dropped the game as he put up the L EA in his WH which got taken out before it could anchor, he decided that it was too much of a time sink and too easy for that time to be blown up because someone can. And this is at the heart of the conflict, because on the other side you have a lot of time rich players who will just explode with wealth if you make it easy for casuals.

The game means something because you put effort in to create it, and loss of that is so easy, this makes the game special, but it is also very nasty in terms of casual play I am happy with ganking as a game play, however I yelled at CCP when all mining ships had the tank of a wet paper bag in comparison to the buff of destroyer DPS, because I knew it would devastate the hisec casual mining players and it did, and CCP were not even aware of it, or if they were they thought tough shite, you donā€™t get EVE. Problem is that this player base was significant and subbed with RL money an account. You donā€™t have to move the game over to be PvP free at all, you just have to make sure the balance is right and the balance is right in terms of mining ships at this point period. For example I would allow an Omega player the ability to run a single Alpha account at the same time.

I do not think that CCP would ever make hisec a no gun area, it is totally against the ethos of the game, ganking is part of Eve.

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Well that was just about the most balanced, self reflective, and informative reply I have had on these forums, and Iā€™ve had a few. They arenā€™t nearly as troll infested as I thought.

The only issue I have with the ā€˜its hard for casualsā€™ is I have been a filthy casual for years, it is hard, it does limit my options, but its an MMO so I cant expect the game to be balanced for casual solo play without breaking the game- I know from your post you can see why this would be the case,

So if I want to access the big boy content I need to devote time to the game, and make some friends, I donā€™t see anything wrong with that at all.

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  1. Prevent people with a suspect|criminal flag from warping/cloaking in HS unless in a capsule.
  2. Prevent bumping between people if they both have security set to green.
  3. When a bump occurs, both ships get a suspect flag if the pilot set the security to not-green.

That is how your prevent asymmetrical bumps in Eve.

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Ignite AB/MW/Warp Drive is how one avoids bumps, I have heard.

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In a Bowhead most definitely, pity that they cannot be fitted to freighters howeverā€¦

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Truedat

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ā€¦yet.

Seriously, though, I was surprised how many speed mods Iā€™d see fitted to industrials of all kinds; in situations in which they surely represented a wasted slot?

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ā€¦ yet. If only that was so

It depends what you are doing, I have about three different DST fits, one of which has no propulsion mods at all, the others do, but they are not being used in hisecā€¦, or perhaps they are not really used when undocking from a market hub for example? Repair paste is of course a must for thatā€¦

The freighter having one would enable it to get into warp quicker and give casual solo players more of a chance if they cannot afford a second account or have friends along to help in the super boring exercise of moving between systems, though I guess, the moments of helpless terror when they got bumped maybe makes up for it, but I am not convinced.

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Thanks for that. Iā€™ve been out of the game so long that I forgot the term ā€˜prop modā€™; can you believe it!

I can see how the inclusion of such a module might give a target in an industrial some sort of chance, but I doubt whether it would in most cases alter the outcome. I speak here of your average capsuleer, hawking hisher wares back and forth in Highsec, on a weekend, or mining during a netflix ā€˜presentationā€™.

In the past, I was certainly aware of pilots being ganked while having MWDs slotted, and of course the classic, of having multiple defense modules slotted - but not switching them to ā€˜activeā€™ (the words are gone again).

In the end - and here I think we can agree - itā€™s down to the individual pilot. EVE rewards its committed players (of whatever hue), and punishes harshly those inclined to dabble. Whether that should be so is the topic which often cripples our forum threads, to the detriment of players on both sides of the argument, I feel.

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Welcome back.

You have to think about the DST and the cloak / mwd trick, it is a very effective way of moving a DST around and cuts down the chances of getting ganked. It is also something you do when operating in lowsec, WH space and nullsec, though in the last two a MJD to get out of bubbles is a must. The other hisec option is go full expensive active hardener mod tank, the Impel with certain mods, overheated and of course slaves and a command ship is effectively ungankable, I am currently training a hisec transport alt for that very setup

The difference a BS MWD makes to the align time of a Bowhead is incredible, to be blunt if anyone fits a Bowhead without one they need their brains tested.

A fair point, as I said above the game does need a certain amount of casual players, but I feel that the dice is too loaded against them at times, but I am also mindful of not destroying what Eve is, however when looking at this my main premise is that Eve should be hard for everything and ganking of casuals does not fall into that. That is the opinion that I ended up having which is I guess part of my issue. One important change was allowing an Omega account to run an Alpha account as well as his Omega, in other words at the same time, this would at least adjust one weakness of the casual players. I know a lot of people would get upset over that, but I for one will not stop subbing two accounts over it.

In any case too many nullsec alliances do not take enough care over their logistics, the sheer number of expensive citadels ganked in solo freighters was just incredible to me, I was like pah that is so silly, but then again their wallets are something hugeā€¦

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157

Thats very well played, I may have to send that maller pilot some isk myself.

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Can someone keep a list of how much Drac claims to have donated to antiga?

Id like to donate the same plus 1 million to CODE each time too, thanks.

In the interests of fairness, you understand

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Well, CODE claim that some special people donated to them more than a trillion. You can find thread on these very forums :wink:

For the interest of fairness you should donate to AG insteadā€¦

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But I believe Drac when he said that.

And if Antiga are the success he says (and why not), CODE needs the money more :slight_smile:

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Iā€™d imagine ā€˜balancingā€™ anything with the mountain that is CODE shareholders donations on one side to be pretty much impossible.

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Must be popular guys.

However I only know for sure that what Drac says is true, the CODE site could just be Fake Nudes

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