Do you think any entity in Eve kills more newbies than CODE. Mind you I only mean the HS kills, as I consider any kill that occurs in low, null or WH space legit. Simply on the risk vs reward merit, as rewards are lowest in HS. (unless you count multibox mining which new character lacks skills to do)
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Aside from CODE. and some other smaller ganking groups (Goons have a few contingents, as far as I know, and some independent actors), the only other major source of destruction remaining is from blanket wardec groups. In the past, when I was more active, there were hundreds of little groups like mine playing the mercenary/extortion field, but CCP killed that off.
On one hand, these wardec groups collectively kill more stuff than CODE. does. On the other, they’re only able to go after targets that are war-eligible, while CODE. doesn’t make that distinction.
So I would have to say that CODE. likely does cause the most direct newbie destruction per capita.
Well yes, but the point of excluding empty pods is that empty pods are usually incidental to another kill that is already accounted for in the veteran vs. newbie comparison.
I just see that blowing up a new player, or trying to extort isk from them before they even made any is griefing. From the perspective of that new player.
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Honestly I believe CCP should implement a warning upon undocking if CODE players are in system, simply to warn the little guy of the harsh realities of Eve, before he ragequits.
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From the perspective of many (in fact, I would estimate most, based on the chats that can be observed in the public channel the victims are invited to) older players, it is also “griefing.”
As for older players I consider they poses the necessary knowledge how to protect them self against ganks. If they cannot be bothered to do so or if they afk, that is entirely their problem. No, I speak only for those poor little newbies caught in the whirlwind.
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Those older players don’t know how to protect themselves because they haven’t been exposed to loss. The true newbies who get ganked (and continue playing) are much less likely to repeat the same mistake in the future. The ones who don’t get ganked when they’re new grow up into these old, oblivious vets who lose hundreds of millions, rail against everyone in the chat, and then rage-quit.
Do some new players quit when they get ganked? Yeah, they do. But most are too new to be entirely frustrated by the experience, and are more likely to be perceptive to the idea that “that must mean this is something that can happen in this game.” The ones who would have quit after getting ganked when they’re new, but were somehow spared that experience, turn into these amazing drama bomb stories you sometimes read about on the forums.
That is probably true in great many cases, not all ofc. In any case, I have no sympathies for those. Eve reality is what it is and far be it from me to try to change anything. Just saying that ganking a player that just started off, and doesn’t know which way is up (there is no up in space ofc) is in fact griefing.
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Those players tend to be in starting/career agent/SOE systems, where new player protection rules are in place, and CODE. doesn’t operate. I’m sorry, but someone AFK-mining in a frigate in a 0.7 system, even if new by virtue of age, can’t be considered as someone who “doesn’t know which way is up,” because they’ve reached a point where they’re making a conscious decision to do something specific in the game.
Being afk is asking for it. What you say is true, but it does not negate my previous statement.
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If there were no PvP players Eve would be insufferably boring, on the other hand if every player in Eve was solely PvP oriented it would not be something I would want to play.
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Look, you keep saying that CODE. is intentionally griefing newbies, and I keep explaining and providing reasons for why that’s not the case. We’ve talked about this before already, so why bother revisiting it again? You’re free to hold whatever belief you want, even though I’ve provided ample arguments for why it’s objectively incorrect. It’s not my desire or prerogative to convince someone that the Earth isn’t flat. As far as making a case for my argument, I feel like I’ve done that sufficiently. Meanwhile, you haven’t. You just pressed me on my points, without providing any substance of your own.
Just enjoying a good discussion. Looking for some insights I missed.
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also I totally made my case point
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You really can’t help but being abrasive can you, no matter what argument I make you will not acknowledge it on the basis “I’m the utmost authority on the subject and your opinion is worthless”. I made plenty of arguments, many of which you simply sidestepped, but oh well, what can you do. Other people character flaws are not my concern.
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Show me one.
No I’m not doing that, you can scroll up just as easy as the next person… 
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Vixie - I think your fundamental mistake is believing that highsec is supposed to be safe. Nowhere is such a thing written. Such was never CCP’s intention.
Highsec is merely the part of the game with the most police and gate/station guns. You are attributing some sort of moral status to it that doesn’t exist.
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The EVE Uni scam is probably the worst kill of noobs, followed closely by Silent Coalition and Absolute Order.
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