I find the sec gain from rats bonus kinda illogical. Makes these ships a best choice for “bad guys” instead of “good guys”.
I bet I won’t get far with suggesting a removal of this, so what about a new additional trait of CONCORD ships to incentive them to be used against bad guys?
Say, grant ship insurance to the pilot of CONCORD ships if he shoots a criminal player whose insurance was denied due to committing a criminal act.
Ideally, criminal player (-5.0 or lower) without criminal timer killed by pilot flying this ship would deny this insurance too (which it doesn’t right now), but I am not very hopeful for something like that. Btw how does it work in lowsec, say I kill a pod and become a criminal and then I lose my ship elsewhere to some player while criiminal. Is the insurance denied in such case?
The reasoning behind this is to make the ships actually used by the players roleplaying “police” or whatever and to add extra incentive to use them in PvP in low sec or well anywhere as they are rare to be seen there due to their price and target painted on their backs.
Right now they are mostly used in PvE and exploration. Correct me if I am wrong.
In my experience, the good guys aren’t afraid to go sus in lowsec and lose sec status initiating combat against the bad guys who try to use neutral alts or tags to dodge lawful engagement.
It’s fine as is because good guys need to repair their sec status too after such cases!
Isn’t it the good guys that have high security status? And bad guys that have negative security status because they’re illegally attacking people in high sec or low sec?
I think high security status is a good sign of good guys (or of people who do often shoot rats but only fight in null, wh or pochven space so they don’t lose any sec status).
Yes exactly, which is why the CONCORD ships are more desired by bad rather than good. Which is kinda illogical considering that CONCORD is the EVE police.
Bad guys, at least the ones that do illegal stuff, have low security status, so they get very low effectiveness out of the CONCORD ships due to missing out on the big repair bonus, right?
So aren’t these ships meant for people who do care about having high security status? The good guys, who shoot NPC pirates and are rewarded for that with more security status by CONCORD?
Good guys engage in non-CONCORD sanctioned PvP and have low security status, too.
FW pilots that first engage neuts sitting on Plex gates. Neuts are being highly suspicious with this in-game action, no sus timer involved, so sec status loss.
Lowsec inhabitants that want to stop their enemy’s neutral hauler alts from staging crap. Both in and out of FW.
Lowsec inhabitants that fleet up for any kind of structure defense/bash. No wardecs are required. Guaranteed sec status tanking as part of big fleet action.
These are just off the cuff. You should at least try living in lowsec before propagating the myth that “high sec status means they’re good guys”.
So, good guys lose sec status. Good guys need to raise sec status. That means this bonus is working as intended:
These CONCORD ships are meant for people who care about having and raising security status, in other words, the good guys.
Or at least guys who do more good than bad, because CONCORD doesn’t mind if you sometimes slaughter people in illegal PvP on the side as long as you also frequently enough help CONCORD deal with NPC pirates as that gives you the positive security status you need to keep using those ships. And the ships themselves help you with that playstyle of being the ‘good guy’, even if you’re only a part-time good guy.
CONCORD doesn’t think those actions are acceptable, which is exactly why they lower your security status for those actions. If you didn’t want to lose security status attacking illegal targets, even if it is in low sec, you shouldn’t attack them illegally. The game allows you to do so, as CONCORD does not cover 100% of space and doesn’t react in low sec like they do in high sec, but it is still part of their monitored area of space and they will reduce your security status for any actions that they do not like, in order to encourage you to attack legal war targets and leave that neutral hauler alone, even in low sec.
People can just ignore CONCORD though, even more easily so in low sec, so many people just take the security status hits. When you take those illegal actions you aren’t a good guy at that moment, but only something like a part-time good guy.
And part-time good guys do need to raise their security status while they’re good guys, to avoid the security status of when they’re being bad guys, because if they don’t do that, they’ll eventually be visible to everyone as criminals, and hunted.
When you look at the new FW explo sites that were just released, what’s a FW member going to do when faced with a neut warping into their site, think “gee, I’m going to become a temporary bad guy for a moment”? No, they think “gee, the sec status mechanic sucks, I have to take a hit to proactively defend myself”.
And what you say is true, some give up trying to tag up or rat up to 0.0 sec status or 5.0, and so are flashy red. But it’s not because these part-time good guys are actually bad guys, it’s because sec status sucks in low sec and literally means nothing about “good guys” and “part-time good guys” and “bad guys”.
I know in high sec that sec status has totally different implications. But because this one y number is tied to both areas of space, people tend to push their stupid high sec moral judgements onto that number for everyone, and I’m here to push back against it:
“High Sec Status just means they historically have ratted more than they not-CONCORD-sanctioned PvP, and it means nothing about their willingness to not-CONCORD-sanctioned PvP today and means nothing about them being ‘good’ or ‘bad’ in-game-morality capsuleers.”
I get what yuu are saying, but I really don’t think that the real “good guys” would be doing this on a daily basis so they would fall under 0.0 and thus the bonus would have a meaning for them.
On the other hand, as a bad guy myself, I see a high merit in these ships for fixing -10 sec status by ratting. And considering I saw quite a few pirates flying these ships (and doing PvP) it kinda feels like these ships “fell into wrong hands”.
(And before you argument that tags are “cheaper” and more (time) efficient, sure they are, and I wouldn’t really rat in enforcer myself, but that doesn’t really change the point.)
Sorry, but FW participant aren’t the “good guys”. They are soldiers. For “good guys” I mean players who roleplay as a police and are not engaging in illegal activities in first place. Antigankers and alike. In my opinion, the CONCORD ships are primarily for them, not for FW players.
Look man, go live in low sec with a group for two years with structures, let me know how that goes.
Just so we’re clear, I’m only talking about lowsec, I’m not going to try to discuss your life in high sec since you know it better.
Sorry, there are no “good guys” under your definition in lowsec. Even the NEPF guys that come to lowsec go suspect because they enter FW plexes in order to catch the “bad guys” that are already in there.
They don’t go “oh no, I RP a good guy, I can’t have a sus timer, I guess I’ll just wait for them to warp to one of the 3 gates in system and stay without a suspect timer”.
Trying to create this illusion of “good guy” and “bad guy” is a waste of time and energy. It doesn’t exist, and it certainly isn’t tied to an imaginary number like “sec status” aka “CONCORD boot licking”.
Let’s be real for a second - when do people actually use the sec status rep bonus on CONCORD hulls?
There’s probably about 10-20 people who run rep fits in Pacifiers for hunting in wormholes, and a similar number who run DEDs in Marshals. Almost all the use cases of the hulls favour buffer.
y number is tied to both areas of space, people tend to push their stupid high sec moral judgements onto that number for everyone, and I’m here to push back against it: