Talks have been about and an orca along with a mining barge/exumer where another poster stated you´d be able to do theoretically 66m/h in HS
Not about AFK orca mining 
I mine 3 man, hi-sec, 60mil/h it’s easy. (I don’t even need 4th man for this)
Yes! Before this resource distribution Null was more profit now it’s a lie! I know because I really mine, I can compare there and hi-sec.
Just look Ore value here: https://ore.cerlestes.de/ore
Plenty of Belts hi-sec, so If I want rly only most profits, I just mine Veldspar, skip rest. But I don’t rape belts, I mine them all, and still I get more profits then null.
- Risk vs Reward aspect. yeah ))) f**** null mining,.
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If someone still doesn’t believe that nullsec mining has been removed, I remind you once more than even lowsec stupids of this thread already admitted that all nullsec miners should just pack up and go to hisec.
At the moment, nullsec mining just doesn’t exist. And a stash of high-ends it brought is just not as easy to burn through like it is to burn through trit, so it was gonna stay that way for months… until ratting will get removed in a few days, war will break due to exhaustion of ship replenishments with both sides signing “■■■■ CCP” agreement, and it will stay that way for years after that.
Because when the winning move is to sit on your stash and watch it grow in value, guess what is going to happen?
Oh well, CCP has a plan for that too, being caught on manipulating isotope market the other day, they’ll just print stuff on jita and claim it’s economy restoring.
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it’s the only interpretation , you can make.
Your interpretation is not conclusive. And don’t talk in the stead of other people.
I personally think he has a valid point wrt tritanium production and transport to NS (the increase in logistic price of trit is so huge that you rather buy stuff like meta modules and move them to save cost), but also he is completely off-topic and off-topic rants are just plain pollution.
You wasted your time on an off-topic rant.
Same. I tried it with 1 orcas and 1hulk and two procs. The result was that I was bored, and made maybe 100M in 2H. Also that’s with structures having lower %refine
I tried several things, including running combat anoms with the teams and then swapping to hulks/covetors but first the hold of the orca is not good enough and then the amount of ore is so low that one laser cycle eat each rock.
Maybe I missed something too. But going hulk in HS isa stupid idea unless you are in a deep backwater 1.0 system and have scouts on the gates 2j away, since gankers are protected by concord.
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I wont argue anymore, so useless. Just for knowing - even if you mine right now 10mil/h(Orca afk for example) you gona get more profits then Null doing same + high prob. you will get blowed up. (nulls are getting ganked more offten then you think, at least space where I live.) risk vs reward is broken now for null miners.
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What are you basing your prices on ?
I’m not trying to argue. Just trying to get my facts straights.
I saw many people make mistakes about the valuation, eg of ore, that … meh. For example how do you valuate the price of moving stuff in HS ? If people want to mine in covetors they need to be far from HS, without a JF. Also with the retardness of CCP “quantum core” it’s just not possible to have a structure to compress in HS so compressing became an old memory.
Market buy/sell Order list. Thats rly all about it.
When price drop down for some particular material (mexallon for example) your Ore value which contain Mexallon in Orca’s cargo worth less.
- Ore DNA it self. When CCP reduced mexallon output from 100 Arkonor, it made ore worth less then before.
This is so true. When a roaming gang rolls into a system and whines about all the targets docking up, what they should be complaining about is the poor balance, not cowardly behaviour.
Nobody ever takes up that offer, since they’re not after fights, they’re after ganks. Sad.
This is an excellent point. What shipwright would continue to build retrievers with no tank over and over and just be like shrug when they get blown up by a single catalyst? That kind of attitude there would still be DC-10’s falling out the sky.
Thats something that the ESS change might have been good at, creating a mechanic where both sides had a good chance of affecting income generation in a system. Hostile roamers controlling the ESS grid, bounties go down. Blues controlling the ESS grid, bounties go up. Sort of capture the flag, give both sides an incentive to attack/defend the ESS in both an active and passive capacity.
ORE Agents are the only NPC agents I really wanted to run missions for when I first played, and I couldn’t because the above 24/7 camping.
In the same boat there. CCP have a long way to go to build trust back up after the Blackout and the MESS changes hopefully will not make this problem worse.
Raise them now while the activity still earns an unmodified amount of ISK, afterwards nobody is going to want to grind a military level 0 all the way to 5 for a -%50 hit to bounties.
Typical, MESS is the right name for it then.
So what are all the new people in barges and ventures supposed to do? Skill inject past all the other ships that would be perfectly fine if it were not for a bunch of socially maladjusted delinquents?
This is just trolling.
Kitey ships want everyone to do this, they win by tricking people to chasing and giving easy 0 transversal shots. Its infinitely better to just ignore them or set up camps and mug them as they come through the gate.
Its not about making the bad people go away, its about moving them to the same place as the other bad people are so they are only hurting each other. Blackout was a great example of this, where after the first fortnight it went from “omg, this change is so cool” to “wha wha wha, all the systems are either dead or full of cyno-fit super umbrella’s”.
Why do you care? Isn’t there a region somewhere that needs AFK Cloaky Camping?
Or breaking the servers when applied at scale, like aggression graphs, despite how aggression graphs were a ‘pure’ adherence to the very straightforward rules at the time.
After passive moon goo removal, there is no benefit to owning sovereignty apart from a name on a map.
Rat in a proper fleet with boosts and logistics, like an incursion group. Awful ISK/hr though.
True, but 500 goons spread out may be create opportunities that do not exist when 500 goons are all within cyno range of each other.
Jump fatigue? If the starvation and dynamic changes do their jobs, reintroducing fatigue might actually make a lot of currently empty space occupied.
Moon re-roll every 3 extractions or so would fix that.
Its so sad because its so true. CCP shut down Iwantisk and the other gambling sites because of RMT, now TTC is printing money hand over fist because ‘they have figured out the rules’ and CCP is ‘not yet at the point of changing them’ for now.
Overcoming the existing inertia of entrenched groups is a huge problem, the dynamic redistribution likely will not even scrape the surface.
The status quo is served by the existing groups crushing the life out of the new, in the same way war declarations crushed new people for 15+ years. What to do about it? The barrier to entry is enormous.
This is Eve. The difference between gaming and abusing mechanics is how long it takes before CCP starts banning people.
A common theme in the forums is an inability to distinguish between good PvP and bad PvP. With arenas, an example was used where one pilot ( Bob ) fights 10 battles and wins 10, where another pilot ( Alice ) fights 100 battles and wins 50. By a percentage, Bob is a better PvP pilot than Alice, but Alice is better in the number of wins. Which of the two is a better Pilot? What if Bob has 200 million SP and Alice only 10 million?
The formula in how the Dynamic Bounty System calculates payouts needs to be fair and reasonable, Think less about teaching others, and more about how CCP demonstrably fails to learn.
This kind of attitude would get an instant rejection in any sane corporation vetting process for recruits.
Nice succinct summarisation and sadly likely the practical outcome.
Troll enosis interceptors. Rorqual swarms. Warp bubbles anchored on citadels running point defences. Enough logistics power to repair CONDORD damage ? War declarations strangling the life out of new players? CCP did not believe a lot of things are a problem.
Tell that to the ice miners that don’t have belts to harvest anymore.
It never did.
They just don’t get it, do they?
What, maybe years ago, don’t think that is possible now.
That does seem a little unbalanced in terms of risk vs reward.
Hindsight? Can it honestly be said looking back the past few years that the collective community doesn’t hold their breath with every patch?
Oh of course. Pump all the water out of the tank, the fish will just magically respawn back to life when the water gets pumped back.
Under the skill tree, there is no pre-requisite for Ignorance.
Is that 60 million/hr total, or per character involved?
Oh the irony.
What a surprise that mexallon is now the limiter on ship production?
The only hope here is that this change is the worst of it and not the eye of the storm.
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Well, two years ago I think, but apart from being on Alpha now, I dont really see it as being impossible, expensive, definately, but not impossible.
Ok, as we approach the 1000 posts mark, let’s sum up what was leaked on Mandatory ESS, aka MESS, mechanics:
- The MESS is deployed in every system of nullsec. Old ESS deployable are obsolete. You cannot opt out of using MESS. Mechanics of MESS are completely different from ESS.
- MESS takes 50% of bounties, split between main and reserve bank.
- MESS is gated, and leaks suggest there’s anti-cloaking, anti-filament, anti-cyno “clouds”, both near gate, and inside.
- The gate allows cruiser, bc, bs, and their T2 variants - and nothing else.
- Inside, there’s a scram bubble. No MJD, MWD, warping. Current radius is 75km.
- There is no share button. The payout is timed and automatic. Current period is 3 hours until trapped ISK is paid out.
- Main bank can be stolen. When steal succeeds, 60% is delivered in CONCORD bounty tickets to cargo, 40% is destroyed.
- Reserve bank requires what is described as “region key or master key” to be unlocked, and distributed as CONCORD bounty tickets. The way to obtain those keys is unknown. Leaks suggest 100% of it can be taken, but no solid info.
- There is a control page to set how much goes into reserve bank, but how it is distributed is unknown yet.
- The Agency window allows instant intel on all MESSes in the galaxy, searching for the ones full of ISK in real time - ■■■■ this ■■■■, more free intel for morons, what’s next, amount of barges undocked in a system?
- The amount of time required for a steal is unknown, but if it’s below 10-20 minutes, forming for it will be impossible anyway, and CCP will definitely ■■■■ this up, so no point even discussing it - unless the counter fleet is already in the system, steal will always succeed.
All in all, even before dynamic bounty (which is actually a decent change and was suggested a million times already), we’re looking at a change that is effectively the removal of ratting from all but bots. Bots are going to be super happy with this change, densely populated super umbrella regions will be slightly affected, everyone else - severely shafted. The design is extremely abusable by bots, by slippery kiters, and all other forms of pvp avoiding chickens, and is a huge bother to deal with by a fair player.
■■■■ you, whoever came up with this, ■■■■ CCP in general for approving this design.
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But why is the play style of some other player affecting you? You didn’t answer the question. If EVE is not challenging enough for you anymore, why do others have to quit instead of you? What goal is reached when all the “botters” (after-work quitly mining / ratting people) disappear ? How will the game gain quality if all the systems are empty? Ever flown through large parts of NS? Its mostly empty. Yes the SOV is at some of the big blues, but still these systems are empty. You think this will change with the changes ahead? I really doubt that.
Just my 2 cents
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Total man, total, per one that would be OP.
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What do you mean by that? Do you really suggest, that there are bounty items I have to sell / present to CONCORD in order to get my ISK?! If so, who had this brain-fart?!
Just currious
If you wait 3 hours interval for the payout, the main bank share will be paid out in liquid ISK.
However, if you make a steal, or open reserve bank, what you get is not ISK, but items.
Items have to be traded in at CONCORD stations for ISK.
What a utter ■■■■■■■■ … sorry, but this makes no sense.
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How much cargo do these things take please?
0.01m3 per ticket, biggest ticket is 10mil ISK, so we’re talking like 1m3 per billion.
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And it won’t be solved by making people ‘move around more’. Even if they do move around more (which they won’t, to any serious degree.)That only serves to increase the constant footprint large groups maintain… because that’s easier than having to go to war over new space, destroy all the existing infrastructure, then invest billions in all new infrastructure of your own, all of which needs to be done before that new space is useful.
Oh, but…
Every 3 max fracks would be moon re-distribution every 175ish days. Nobody’s going to pick up and move or disrupt all their diplomacy every six months. So instead, you’d see the cartel agreements be more inclusive, and structured in ways that acknowledge that everyone involved will fluctuate between high-contribution and low-contribution phases. The easiest way to do that is to assess the overall number of moons owned, divide up the profits on that basis each month regardless of who’s got how many whatevers this month, and declare all moons off-limits to aggression. Yay! Even less conflict!
And they’d have to redo all the moons in the game simultaneously, each time, or they’d set the economy up for times when the rarest materials are everywhere, or the most needed… simply don’t exist in moons. When they rebalance the moons, they have to make sure each needed moongoo is present in x% of the moons. Doing it individually can lead to quirks of randomization that amount to flipping a coin and getting 100 straight ‘Heads’.
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В целом же, за последние лет 5, ССр бодаются с игроками, чтобы превратить нули в лоусеки. Зачем - совершенно непонятно. Но бодаются с упорством баранов. Сейчас, после всех нерфов крабмобилей, майнинга, эксплоринга, фоззисова, народ живёт в нулях не благодаря разрабам, а вопреки.
Особенно мне нравится, что “Ева - это ММО с открытым миром, песочница”. И тут же “в нашей песочнице нельзя делать квадратные куличики, нам не нравится. И треугольные теперь тоже нельзя, вон тому мальчику неудобно ломать ваши куличики, нам не нравится”. И эта хрень длится уже много лет.
Игроки построили в нулях полноценные государства, хоть и небольшие - ССр не нравится.
Игроки решили проблемы обороны социализацией - ССр не нравится.
Игроки придумали систему безопасности - ССр не нравится.
И так далее. И на каждое “не нравится” разрабы придумывают очередную механику, тупее предыдущей.
Парадокс, однако, но в свободных территориях, в песочнице, разрабы судорожно вычерпывают и выкидывают песок, отбирают формочки и лопатки. Чтоб, не дай бог, игроки не начали получать удовольствие от лепки куличиков.
Нету уже давно в нулях песочницы. Кончилась. Причём силами разработчиков.
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In general, over the past 5 years, CCP have been butting with players to turn zeros into lows. Why is absolutely incomprehensible. But they fight with the tenacity of rams. Now, after all the nerfs of crabs, mining, exploration, fozzis, people live in zero not thanks to developers, but in spite of them.
I especially love that “Eva is an open world, sandbox MMO.” And right there, “you can’t make square Easter cakes in our sandbox, we don’t like it. And now we can’t make triangular ones either, that boy over there is uncomfortable breaking your Easter cakes, we don’t like it.” And this crap has been going on for years.
The players built full-fledged states in zeros, albeit small - I don’t like the SSP.
The players solved the problems of defense by socialization - SSP doesn’t like it.
The players came up with a security system - I don’t like CCP.
And so on. And for each “dislike” developed, they come up with another mechanic, dumber than the previous one.
The paradox, however, is that in free territories, in a sandbox, the developers frantically scoop out and throw out the sand, take away molds and shovels. So that, God forbid, the players do not start to enjoy sculpting Easter cakes.
Nope for a long time in the sandbox zeros. It’s over. And by the developers.
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