This is going out of the scope of my general suggestions..
But here.
And seeing what is around you is important. As is the rest of what I suggested in my post.
Anyways you can choose to fly half blind.. Or use the tools made available to you.
Now if you are WH space all bets are off.. And then you are truly playing an entirely different game. That can be real fun trying to figure out who is, if anyone, in there with you.. There is, but you are going to have to be fast and be able to get back to your saved bookmark. Hoping that it is still there.. All the while wondering when that cloaked ship is going to land on you. Cause you know there has to be one somewhere nearby… LOL
I have heard of people doing this, but it is unnecessary.
Just be aware of local, and warp to a safe or dock up and you will not have trouble. It you are in a fast-aligning frigate and want to live on the edge a bit you can rely on d-scan to know when the catalysts are on their way.
You don’t need to do that. In fact, nobody even can do that consistently, it’s humanly impossible to sustain over a longer period of time.
You use the DScan to check if a ganksquad is actually coming for YOU or is just traveling trough. Which means, if you see a local spike you begin to ping Dscan. If a bunch of Gankships are shown on 14AU you select a warpout target and reduce DScan range to 1 AU and ping again. If they are again on DScan, you initiate warp.
And yes, that is way enough time, because warping happens at variable speeds, it isn’t like 4.5 AU/s over the full warp range. The ships actually need to accelerate and deccelerate. And need some seconds to even fall out ot warp when they land on grid. And then need to lock you. So even if you have a bunch of Catalysts on 1AU you can still warp out in a Barge or in an Exhumer for example.
Practical example:
a Destroyer that warps directly to you and you hit it with a Dscan at 10 AU, will still need ~17 seconds before he lands on grid and can begin to lock you.
if you hit it with a Dscan at 5 AU, you still have ~15 seconds before he can begin to lock you
if you hit it with a Dscan at 1 AU, you still have ~13 seconds before he can begin to lock you
So, yes, DScan defnitely is useful to check if someone is coming at you and you can absolutely make 2 pings within the 14 AU range (1 full range, 1 at 1 AU) to make a qualified decision about warping out or not.
And please don’t argue with me, I literally checked these values like 2 minutes ago by doing multiple warps in a Coercer, Max-Skilled Char and multiple warp distances - with a stopwatch.
You mean like don’t argue with the bit where you left out that your miner/hauler also needs time to align and you can’t just instantly warp off the minute you detect an incoming gank fleet on dscan.
And the bit where, even if you are spamming dscan, your results will on average be 1.5 seconds out of date and up to 3 seconds out of date. Which you can effectively add to your align time. And the fact that most humans are not automatic instant bots and need time to view stuff, process it, and respond.
Thus if your align time is 15 seconds you are stuffed.
No Barge or Exhumer has an aligntime of 15+ seconds and with Orca and Porpoise you can always fly aligned even while mining, just ping-pong between two celestials all the time, boost- and compression range is large enough. InduMode is a noGo in HS unless you have multiple scouts down the chain to your system.
Nobody ever said that you are ungankable just because of DScan, but it definitely helps and if you are not asleep and pay attention at least from the moment the local spikes, it can bring your ships out of the belt in 99% of all cases before the Ganksquad is on grid and has a tackle on you. It’s simple as that, I have done it plenty of times.
There is a reason why professional tackle Interdictors are outfitted with Hyperspatial Rigs, they significantly reduce the reaction window of the target, because you are significantly faster through the 14 AU window where he can see you on Dscan and try to warp away. Ganking Destroyers don’t usualls have those rigs. Which is why basically every Barge can warp out of a belt if Gankers come into the system, no matter if they have 1 AU to warp or 50 AU to warp.
Why would you only start aligning the moment you spot danger on dscan?
Have you never mined or ratted in dangerous space?
Here’s how it works:
You start aligning out the moment you see a potential threat appear in local.
You start using dscan to get an idea of the ship of the potential threat and to see where they’re going
If the ship happens to be a threat for you and appears on dscan you prepare to warp out
Now once the threat is on 1AU scan or appears on grid with you you can instantly warp out.
Because you’re aligned.
And if they happen to be some T1 Heron with only Heron losses on Zkillboard you can usually just wait until they get out of local again while you continue doing what you were doing.
Not disagreeing with the points you are making in general but…… this one is a bit iffy? Compression requires the core right? And if the core is running you ain’t going nowhere right?
Ping-ponging between two celestials means no core running which means limited yield, crap boosts and no compression. Unless things have massively changed since I’ve been away.
You only activate it for one cycle when the cargoholds of the mining ships are full. Or in case of an Orca, they can jetcan mine and you only compress once the Ore Hold of the Orca is full. And all the time in between you can be perma-aligned.
Of course you lose convenience and boost efficiency if you do it that way. Thats the price for higher chances to escape a ganking crew. Every decision has it’s price. You can of course also just stand at zero in the belt with the Core running. Then be ready to either lose your ship because you are a sitting duck or organize (and probably pay) massive combat escorts that will deter the gankers.
Uhmmmm Ok. I can’t wait to try that out. Im sure every mining ship in the fleet is going to fill up during the same 2 minutes every time. What can possibly go wrong.
As far as trade offs go that’s a non-starter for me. There a ton of things that an orca pilot can do that reduce ganking risk without having to compromise on yield and quality of support. But each to their own.
Of course he can, but ultimatively his fate is in the hand of the Gankers then. Because if he stands still and cannot warp off, he has no say in what amount of damage they bring. And I have seen them bringing even unreasonable amounts of ships just to make a statement. Yes, all such things like Nirvana Implants, ShieldLinks, ShieldMindlinks and whatnot can help. I don’t say people can’t use those options. But they shouldn’t complain or demand “nerf ganking” if it fails, while they could have been no longer on grid when it happened.
That number of ships travelling should be something you know about before they even get into system.
I’d like to think my corp mates running around our hq would be giving me warnings before they were within 5 jumps. But then i chose to mine in a system at the end of a 6 system pipe. Just one way in which goes right past where all our guys rat and run missions.
I completely agree that the “nerf ganking” demands are nonsense. I just don’t think compromising the performance of an entire fleet by selectively using the core is a practical or worthwhile solution.
If people are paying the price tag for an Orca they need to be using it to its full potential or there is little point. They might as well be running a venture otherwise.
Totally wise decisions. So you invested into “other measures of security”, namely good intel and proper preparation. Nothing to disagree with. And under these circumstances, you surely can come to the conclusion that the usage of the Indu Core with all its benefits is indeed more benefitial to your mining operation in comparison to the rather small remaining risk of still getting caught by a ganker crew.
My hints of not using the Core was aimed at more or less solo- to small-group operations of just a booster ship and your own alts, that are not part of a larger corporation or group that can have scouts around, share intel early and thus can spot possible threats long before those threats can spot the mining operation to ambush it.
You are right about that, I would just add that investing so much for a mining crew in HS anyway sounds a little bit stupid in my eyes. I mean, if you can afford and fly a well skilled Orca you’d make 5 times the money by just leaving Highsec. So using the Indu Core or not doesn’t really change a an inefficient mining operation to an efficient one. It still sucks, considered what you could make if you’d just mine out a WH full of Gneiss and Gas for example. Or live under a Cyno Umbrella and can mine high value ores all day long in Null.
Porpoise boosts without industrial core boost yield by 63%.
With industrial core they boost yield by 71%.
So if you run the industrial core you get 5% more yield (1.71/1.63) than if you did not use the core at all.
In other words, the industrial core is only a very small boost to your boosts.
It’s an optional extra risk you can take for a tiny bit of extra yield.
When I mined in null sec I simply didn’t use a core. You get the majority of the boost even without the risk of an industrial core.
While you need a core for compression the ore hold of these mining support ships is very large so only if you support many ships you really need compression. As I boosted just one Hulk (my mining alt) it runs fine without compression and without core!
This means I could just align my Porpoise and Hulk out any time hostiles showed up in local chat, and warp away when they were dangerous.
Oh come off it. That doesn’t work after a few seconds….when you’ve put yourself out of range of whatever asteroid. You are either mining or you aren’t…..you cannot have a lasting state of ‘aligning’ and still mine…you might as well just immediately dock up. I’ve used the tactic when I’ve shot a suspect at Jita, and to be prepared for the guy undocking in something bigger I align to a safe spot, but it is only meaningful for a short time after which I’m no longer in range for any new targets.
As point of note.. I do align my retriever when I am mining.. Now in a venture I am lazy about that. But then aligning in a venture really does not give me any real advantage. As it warps pretty fast. Unlike the the retriever.. Those few seconds are that I shaved off from aligning. Has made a difference in getting out of an asteroid belt fast.
I am not sure yo8u understand what aligning does.. Maybe I am repeating something you already know.
Aligning is essentially just pointing your ship in the direction of where you want to warp to. When I am alignIng. Once the ship is moving in into alignment I hit stop quick.. As I have found that as it is stopping, the ship completes the alignment.
Er, no…..if you ‘stop’ then you are no longer aligned. You have to be travelling at a specific velocity to be aligned. I think perhaps you are the one who does not ‘understand what aligning does’.
