when using an orca with high shield buffing skills in a 0.6 system and mining with a hulk…would that work against gankers ?
Not really, if gankers are adamant at their wish to destroy your ships they will just bring enough numbers to destroy them. Hulk is not really advisable in Highsec, having paper thin tank, you’d be better off just using the Skiff then at least you are much more likely to be left alone.
2-man fleet composition, Best to Worst:
- Orca + Hulk has a combined yield of up to 3383.15m³/min. (not incl. boosts)
- Orca + Skiff has a combined yield of up to 2979.15m³/min. (not incl. boosts)
- 2x Orca has a combined yield of up to 2722m³/min.
Hulk vs Ganker Ship(s), their estimated prices are Hulk = 400m and the 2-3 Catalysts = 26-39m.
Orca vs Ganker Ships, their estimated prices are Orca = 1.2bn and 30-35 Catalysts = 390-455m
Thank you very much for the numbers, the hulk is not that big difference to the skiff to make all the trouble worth, using a hulk in highsec.
So just because i would use a hulk they would kill the orca also you mean ?
If so, then its better not to attract attention and just use a orca and a skiff , if i got it right.
It’s not so much that they are likely to gank the orca, but the hulk is a prime target since it requires only a small investment to gank for the high value of it. They might also go for an orca’s drones if you field augmented ones.
By opposition, a tanked skiff with a full flight of medium drones already out to immediately react to aggression is not a great target and they will likely not bother. With your orca, you do want the one mining boost for cycle time, but the range and crystal preservation are both just QOL, so fitting two shield boosts is probably more valuable too. I once thought of fitting remote shield reps on it, but haven’t done so yet.
Overall, mining in high sec is all about making yourself too much hassle to be worth it. Tank for highest EHP possible, don’t bling, mine in a system with low traffic, etc. In fact it is good to fit so that half your fitting value (ie expected drop value if you get blown up) is lower than the investment required to gank you. This way, they gank at a loss (if not a killmail loss because of ship+rigs value).
And remember, there is always the risk of the one ganker wanting to prove the point that nobody is safe who will gank something just because he can too…
Whatever question you might ask with that theme, just stick to the rule of thumb: there is no safe in eve.
So be smart. Don’t fly what you can afford to replace instantly. Scout. Map your environment and the demographics within. Make contacts, do networking. Be active. Be informed. Always align
One tip: forget about the hulk. It’s like candy. It attracts the gank. When push comes to shove the raw metrics on yield and timers are not everything. CCP’s has long ago stratified income anyway. At the end of the day, considering moving around, maneuvering, replacements, human constraints and more of that everybody makes the same so fly the Skiff if you fly T2.
Thanks all for the answers, hulk is down then. I found a fit that would be good i guess, it has shield buffs and good mining buffs too https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Orca/Fittings
the 3rd from seen below it is, with 6 used high slots
You are perfectly safe from gankers if you mine in Ivorider system. Even in Hulk. You will be killed by FOB NPC pirates instead.
The only anti-gank proof mining vessel is a procurer. Fully tanked one. Simply becasue gankers will lose ISK war if they will try to gank it even in 0.5 system. And they hate losing ISK war. But your efficiency will be so low…
Look how few it needs to kill two hulks in highsec: https://zkillboard.com/related/30000188/201809032200/
And here about the Orca in highsec: https://zkillboard.com/related/30003504/201809020200/
People greatly overrate the chance of being ganked. The actual number of people who are ganked is fairly small. In fact, there are many folk who have never been ganked in their entire career. I’ve been playing now for something like 10 years. When I used to mine in hs, I had only one actual attempted gank on me - this was back when hulks were the predominate mining platform - some guy tried suiciding a tempest on my hulk, but because my hulk was battle fit, the tempest died.
If you take minor precautions, you can easily avoid being ganked even if you use a hulk.
- find an out of the way system - - most ganks happen in busy systems such as the ice mining systems.
- use a skif or procurer - its not that these are ungankable - it just that you make yourself a less attractive target.
- pay attention to what is happening around you. If you are living in a less used system, you will get to know who is a regular. If all of a sudden you see some strange frig or covert op ship in your belt sitting next to you - you might want to move along.
- tank your ship. Whatever ship you use, IMO you should go for best tank - now there is a counter belief - some people feel that going for max yield is the best - and that losing a ship is just a cost of business that you make up for by mining more. My feeling is different - I dont like to lose ships.
- dont be afraid to go to null or lowsec. If you join a proper alliance nullsec/lowsec can be much safer then highsec.
someone in here needs to point out that it’s extremely unlikely that you’re going to get ganked.
@ISD_Sakimura aren’t you supposed to be impartial?
No, it is quite likely, if you are a dedicated miner and mine nearly every day. I know several miners in a quite remote area, but even there each of them got ganked at least once a year.
Golden rule: Be prepared to lose your ship as soon as you undock.
Zkillboard may disagree with on that. While you don’t see Hulks getting killed much, one of the reasons for this is that they are not a common sight in Highsec, anymore. Which is because of various events that have been taken place, like the Hulkageddon. Also ganks on Mining Barges and Exhumers, that are not Procurer or Skiff, happen on a daily basis. Just yesterday, 3rd of Sep., the counts are:
- Hulk: 9 Killed and Covetor: 2 Killed.
- Mackinaw: 6 Killed and Retriever: 20 Killed.
- Skiff: 0 Killed and Procurer: 8 Killed (2 by “gank”, 6 by NPCs).
No, I answered OP’s question based on my experience playing EVE.
no, it doesn’t. the amount of ships getting ganked each day are a blip compared to the amount of ships moving along their way unharmed. you’re being partial AND you’re making things up. being a carebear is fine, and being a carebear isd is fine as well, but being a BIASED carebear isd is a no go.
furthermore does your mentioning of the values prove that you’re being partial
no where in the op is he asking for this. you added this for fueling the fire, not to help anyone.
So you are saying that this question that OP asked, does not contain the “Risk vs Reward” question?
I answered the “Risk vs Reward” with facts about the value he would be risking vs the value that gankers would be risking.
You clearly stated that regardless of which Mining Barge or Exhumer you’re flying it entails the same chances of getting ganked. As I presented the numbers from Zkillboard they clearly disprove of your statement.
just so we’re clear on this, John.
There’s no amount of tank you can put on a ship that’ll protect you against everything and that’s fine, because your tank always is the least that you need to be caring about, but the first thing you need to be taking care of.
I’ll give this to you in bullet points. They’re lines to live by.
you have less tank than the orca next to you: you’re going to live.
you have as much tank as the orca next to you, but he’s got the more valueable cargo: you’re going to live.
you have no tank: that’s stupid. everyone’s tanked. you’re making yourself a target.
you’re afk. depending on who you ask you’re going to get killed and you might be deserving it. yeah. you’d deserve it. usually no one cares about killing an afk orca, it’s just not worth the money. if they know you as a whiner though, they’d be targetting you first. just don’t do it, it’s stupid.
you’re hanging around where lots of gankers are during that time: you MIGHT getting exploded, but you might as well not. Depends on you not being stupid, not being a jerk in local, not being afk and you not unnecessarily attracting their attention.
you’re a jerk talking ■■■■ in local or private: you’re going to get your ass handed to you eventually.
the last one’s the most important one. really.
you can’t word-smith me around. what are you, a noob? tad overly self confident maybe? you think this is the first time you’re showing bias? are you kidding me??
i’m just asking you to be impartial. i don’t desire or want to argue around about that and i’m not going to do it. you’re certainly not helping yourself even trying to argue around about this. attention: ALL i am asking you for, is to be impartial. you’re showing that you’re not, and we can’t have that. we’d all rather keep you so i believe you know which way you should be going.
You’re missing the point. How many of those killed that you listed were in high traffic systems? How many failed to take any precautions at all? Were they afk? Did they fail to tank? Etc. . .
The simple numbers establish that the likelihood of any individual being ganked on any given day is extremely small. Sure some folk do die, but by simply moving to a less traveled system you can bring your chance of being ganked almost to 0. Sure - you can move it even further to 0 by using a skiff but you start to get into questions of diminishing returns - whether its better to have a higher yield and mine more or a lower yield and more “risk.” But overall the risk of dying from ganking is overstated.
In short, if the OP wants to use an orca and a hulk - he can do so safely with some minimal precautions. Is that advisable? well that would all depend upon how he wants to approach the game. If he wants to semi-afk mine - then he should use a skiff; if he wants to actively mine then he can use a hulk. But to be honest, the best advice is to get into low/null and train into a roquel.
Sept 4th was rather… dead… from a people mining perspective. However, so far in September (mostly 1st and 2nd day)…
Our lone ganker ( they show as Solo kills on Zkill, not Ganked ) did…
- Covetor: 2
- Retriever: 13
- Mackinaw: 2
On average, when we have decent activity, we kill 60 per month, just us, none have the GANKED tag in Zkill. Also, when we see a Hulk, we usually kill it… as stated though, those are uncommon compared to the others.
Procurer and/or Skiff that is what we recommend, hands down, anything other than that runs an ever increasing chance of gank based on isk value and decreasing system security value. Tank up the shields and fit a DCU, keep it cheap… no ORE edition stuff, faction, or deadspace (do I need to mention no officer?, yes, seen that) and unless someone takes offence to you or is super bored… you’ll at worst get bumped around.
Same fitting advice for the Orca… also, don’t fly around with expensive stuff in your cargo hold either.
This too, no smack talk in a mining ship… unless you can back it up. Contrary to many folks belief, gankers do have friends and they are usually more than happy to help make a point should the opportunity present.
In the end, OP, as long as you understand the risks and accept them you can mine however tickles your fancy.
Not to disparage your achievement, but 60 is a drop in the bucket compared to the total number of miners. Zkill says that in august there were 542 hulks killed in all of eve. On any given day there are something like 20k players logging in. That number of hulks is a drop in the bucket compared to the over all activity going on. Ganking gets talked about alot. It is fun and sexy, but it really has a very limited impact.
Numerically, over all of EvE, yes, there is a limited impact… and that is a good thing. Packs of gankers roaming and ganking in every system would be a bit nuts. Also, it isn’t like we don’t see a lot of miners flying Procurer and Skiff, or paying attention in some other ship.
But like any statistic, key is context, the ~60 per month is how many die to a solo gank, from just us, for not doing that… we don’t hunt ALL the miners, just our little low traffic area, with our little corp, for about 15-30hrs a month.
Just using our numbers to add weight to the advice, give food for thought, and point out that yesterday was a very poor example. (no offence intended to @ISD_Sakimura)