CSM 12 Summit 1: Minutes Discussion


(DrButterfly PHD) #21

Right, so why not work on making it a better experience.

Im also interested to know what’s bad about the experience. Maybe evewarfare.com can help

(Tipa Riot) #22

Was mentioned, they investigate … (I’m to lazy to get you the cite).

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #23

Best to find out whether CCP are happy with the way PI is at the moment. If yes then gather peoples suggestions on UI interface. If no the gather players thoughts on how to rework it.

Focus peoples thoughts on the appropriate area.

(Jenn aSide) #24

lol. You are aware that at the top of that thread is a list of frequent posters, no?

A mere 24 people account for 59% (509 posts) of that thread , you are almost 5% of that thread by yourself and I (anti-wis) am another 5%. More than 1/3rd of that 24 frequent posters that make up more than half of that thread are either anti-WiS or neutral to the idea.

The CSM’s point stands, not many people care about the CQ or WiS. One thread of constantly repeating angry folk doesn’t change anything.

(Tipa Riot) #25

I re-read the structure parts … it’s really a mess and maybe even dead-end situation right now. At least I have no good idea to fix it so, that it works for all spaces. With for all spaces I mean, the mechanics are discussed currently with only nullsec in mind. But this means that nullsec mechanics (sovereignty warfare, big players) is imported to other areas in space.

Upwell structures are also a sov tool to control space and areas of gameplay! This can easily be seen in highsec. All major highsec market hubs are controlled by PanFam, because they have unlimited resources to eliminate or bribe any competition … the only resistance left is the Planet V project, which relies on “ISK tanking” and a lucky coincidence of wardec mechanics and citadel timers, but this will go soon.

Highsec population and gameplay style can’t compete with the big nullsec entities in sov warfare, so every big ISK source will be monopolized by those. CCP gave them the tools!

Back to the mechanics, people complain about structure weapons too strong … in nullsec. How is the situation in highsec? No AOE weapons, weak targeted weapons, only subcaps … hence structures aren’t force multipliers and whoever brings more people wins.

Kind of TL:DR :wink:

What I want to say, there is no “one size fits all”, if you want to retain the specific ecosystem of each sec area of space, you have to create individual mechanics. For example make structures in highsec a force multiplier for small entities against big groups, and make them weaker in nullsec, where big fleets are the norm.

(Jeremiah Saken) #26

No road map because of NDA ofc. Lowsec session was pointless, nothing was decided. Session about events? For real? They are just dailies, what is there to debate on? They have crimson harvest as prime example how they should work yet they are trying to invent the wheel again.
What the hell is session finder? I would rather like to have ingame encyclopedia about pve than lazy tool what is near me to do. So it will for example show me anomalies in the next system?

(Teinyhr) #27

Read again, since most of the non-recurring posters seem to be neutral or supportive of the idea. Like you said, you yourself comprise like 90% of the anti-wis vomit in the thread.

(Jin'taan) #28

I will note that the lack of a published roadmap is something we mentioned in that session and really want CCP to consider so players know what they have to look forwards to.

(DrButterfly PHD) #29

Suitonia then brought up the varying sized sites have longer timers but the same victory
points, to which CCP replied that fixing that would be a change they would like to see.

Nooooo! The point of the current system is that the smaller sites are more valuable in terms of victory points. This has two benefits:

  1. Encourages smaller size ships to run the sites, making FW more accessible for all.
  2. Protects against rabbit plexing stabbed defenders have too much of an impact by running the larger sites (because they don’t have to kill the rat).

Please don’t change this.

The topic of the timer rollback was brought up again, to which CCP replied that they would also like to be able to add it when time permits. The topic of taxing LP was also brought up, to which CCP replied they would also like to provide that functionality but it would be very technically complex.

I’m not in favor of either of these changes. Timer rollback will make it even harder to capture plexes, making FW even more defensive than it already is. LP taxing doesn’t do any harm, but I don’t see a big benefit. Just run an LP buyback program.

Rabbit plexing is good for faction warfare
(DrButterfly PHD) #30

Jin’taan brought up that one of the other issues with Faction Warfare was standings, and how easy it is for new players to tank their standings to an empire and how difficult it is for people to find how to repair them, let alone actually repair them.

This is a genuine issue. The standings loss puts a lot of people off joining FW.

(DrButterfly PHD) #31

The CSM asked if it would be possible to show where faction warfare combat was going on, so that people could find fights more easily

This is potentially something that could be handled by 3rd party apps, and in fact already is to a large extent by dotlan. What’s missing that dotlan doesn’t provide?

(Jin'taan) #32

Timer rollbacks are a concept meaning that if you leave a site, it resets towards 0 without player involvement. This makes offensive gameplay (invading plexes) and actively defending your plex more important than it is currently, encouraging combat.

(Jin'taan) #33

It’s not in client, so you have to actively find the tool + figure out how to use it. It gives newer players a bigger disadvantage and hampers CCP’s ability to teach/tutorialise new players in this regard.

(DrButterfly PHD) #34

But even if you are fighting, and occasionally have to leave the site to re-ship, or switch to a smaller site to doge a roaming pirate gang, its going to make taking the sites take longer, especially at busy times. This places even more power in the hands of timezones that are less busy, making boting more lucrative and influential.

It also hurts new players who, with no hope of winning fights against faction fit vets can only be involved by rabbit plexing.

(Jin'taan) #35

If you leave the site. This is something that we want to actively disincentive as it makes the stabbed farmers significantly worse, making it more worthwhile for people to farm in combat capable ships.

I see vastly more new players actually fighting in T1 fit ships, and I go out of my way to send them ISK and give them a hand. I don’t think avoiding PvP is something we want to give an incentive for in FW.

(DrButterfly PHD) #36

if there’s a group of 3 or 4 of you in frigates running a site and a gang of 20 pirates in cruisers jumps into system, you’re going to need to leave the site.

This happens pretty regularly in Kamela, and frankly it’s hard enough to push the system up without roll-back timers.

(Jin'taan) #37

And go to a Novice/Small and not be touched by those 20 Cruisers. Alternatively, why should those 20 pirates pushing you out of a site not be rewarded?

(Shailagh Rose) #38

How about ccp sums up all the paychecks given to devs making the “beta/new” map over the years.

Could they have just made an arraignment with Dotlan to copy their map style and implement it?

Or just keep wasting thousands of dollars more month after month and year after year again on the “beta map”

(Circumstantial Evidence) #39

@Jin_taan asked about how the vulnerability was for the refinery, to which CCP showed it was currently set to 20 hours each week but that those numbers are still being adjusted. Jin’taan replied that they should move more towards 16 hours a day.

I have a feeling this was a transcription error.

(Jin'taan) #40

It was not.