CSM 13 - High Sec Issues/Suggestions/Ideas


(Penance Toralen) #544

I have said before and I’ll repeat it again. The NPE has to be PvP focused. What’s the point of new players essentially belt-feed into the content mincing machines of the Big Five? Because that is what has been happening. It is also why, giving players some sort of option to fight back is doomed to fail. (particular when new players are led to poor choices from the start and spend six months training industry skills).

I would seriously suggest you do actually do the opposite. Made wars cheaper and last longer. Do not bother with the entire Social corp or Structure Requirement. Increase Concord reaction times. Give the Belligerents exactly what they want.

But in exchange for this, Null Sec has to step up. If you sit around and agree to parcel out moon-goo for profit; then Blue Donut can agree to work cohesively the save the game from itself. They move to pro-actively recruit directly within the Starter Systems. Sever the flow of players into the high-sec mincing machine. This fits within well within the primary meta that players linked within a social context are more engaged with the game. If Null can do it well enough, then Big Five starve for lack of content.

On the other side. I would direct you to review how effective tightening the mechanics of suicide ganking have proven. Hint: not. A rule system to govern wars-dec would have to be a lab-rat maze to have any hope of moderation.

(Brisc Rubal) #545

I have zero interest in mining or rattng, but I do it because it’s lucrative to do it.

If you make it worth their while, they will do it.

(Brisc Rubal) #546

Because when I say 95%, 105:1 and 'wardecs are stacked in favor of the attacker" I’m not arguing that it’s wrong that the strong prey on the weak.

I’m saying that there is zero reason for defenders to bother fighting back so they don’t. The mechanic is stacked almost entirely in the favor of the attacker, and that needs to be fixed because the meta for dealing with war decs is to log off.

That’s what every bit of data we have shows. You guys constantly ignore that point, because it’s inconvenient.

We’ve got plenty of ideas what to do to fix it.

I’m here discussing it because that’s my job. I’m in the Wardecs discussion to hear what the folks there want CCP and the CSM to know because I listen to everything, even if I disagree with it.

The bigger question is why are you here? All you do is gank noobs in retrievers all day. You’ve already admitted you don’t participate in war decs, so why are you wasting my time arguing?

(Brisc Rubal) #547

I agree, and we’ve been asking CCP to add more PvP components to the NPE.

(Dom Arkaral) #548

add a 1v1 tourney to it or something lol

it’s easy to affirm that, ,but we both know it doesn’t work that way
it never has and never will, regardless of the game…

(darkestkhan Eriker) #549

You only had bounty placed on you… it is not harassment in any way. The only problem is you being scared of undocking for no reason (do you even know how much of your bounty anyone would get?). It is not like they can start shooting at you just cause you got a bounty.

PS: I need my bounty to be higher… 80M is just shamefully low bounty.

(Max Deveron) #550

Despite the coming change…is there any chance we could get a list of some of the ideas the CSM is attempting to discuss with CCP for after phase1.

It might help to difuse Ima, or at the very least it gives us an idea of the ideas you guys are working on right now.

PS: also if you or other CSM members have answered my question already in the wardec discord or whatever it is could a link be provided? I am interested in seeing those discussions take place.

(Ima Wreckyou) #551

As already mentioned, the ratio is around 4:1 and not 105:1. And the reason no one is fighting back is not the ratio OR the game mechanics, which are already stacked in their favour because of defenders (ask your alliance friends), but because for one CCP in their infinite wisdom gave everyone an easy way out by making corps completely worthless so it’s easy to dodge a wardec and more importantly because they just don’t want to fight.

It doesn’t matter if there is a goal or whatever, there is simply NOTHING ON THE LINE. Corps are completely worthless.

No, we are not ignoring it we are discussing all sorts of ways how to fix it. You are the one pushing the most lazy and stupid idea to simply cripple them, which has no effect for the people who you claim to make this changes for. I mean what have you even contributed to the discussion apart from repeating the same misrepresented numbers, about which you are either lying or then you simply don’t know what you are talking about. Or both.

Show them and let’s talk about them instead of constantly repeating the same bs, shal we?

Hahaha, no, that is not your job. The CSM is a feedback tool for CCP and not the channel for player feedback. Maybe go read the job description again.

So cute, always there for the children. I’m here because I’m interested in using wardecs (I used them in the past, but they are completely broken since the watchlist removal) but for that to happen they need to be fixed and not crippled. I have like 100% more interest in this mechanic than you.

(Dantelion Shinoni) #552

Your proposal is just going to help make the system more chaotic and degenerative, degenerative being the key word here, now instead of having hundreds of wardecs, PIRAT and the likes will just assist all the wars in the universe.

Nothing to make wars more incenting to new players, nothing to make them learn, nothing to make them want to log in.
I think you are so enamored with the idea of a sandbox that you are willing to destroy any kind of retaining wall that would keep the sand in the sandbox. Ironically, you would end up with something closer to a patch of sand nobody will play in.

That stupid structure bash thing is by far the most viable solution to make wars engaging, especially considering that it opens avenues to include new events/mechanics/structures, which if you are doing a rework is the golden opportunity you are looking for.

(Tipa Riot) #553

Yes, more chaos, more unpredictability, more sandbox is needed. Ideally wars in highsec are fought like in lowsec. Fine if PIRAT assists all the wars, on the defender’s side, but everybody can … the defender/victim can just swim with the big fish, ideal to learn within the crowd of versed PvPers.

Combined with the option to public announce structure timers, this should hopefully attract enough people for the brawl.

EDIT: just had a brilliant idea :smile: what if low power structures in highsec create … a lowsec bubble with 500km radius around them

(Dantelion Shinoni) #554

The best way for both small fish and newbies to learn is among themselves, with the help of some mentors.

Not with the giant machines that are PIRAT and such, this would actually overwhelm them more than anything.

Again, as I said, sure it is a sanbox, but that doesn’t mean that there can’t be mechanics, restrictions, and limits to create a structure around the sandbox. Here it would be giving a space for the small and new where they can experiment, fight each other, and carve a place for themselves.
Better than a brutish chaos where we expect them to figure it out while people who already did are swimming around them ready to eat them up.
Most won’t.
If your goal is to create a super-soldier, that’s a good plan,
If your goal is to entertain an audience, that’s certainly not.

Just. Why???

Also, I don’t know what happened but you have just butchered your post.

(Tipa Riot) #555

Thanks, fixed it.

Believe me, PIRAT won’t be on the defenders side :wink:

Seriously, why do you think public fleets like Spectre and Bombers bar are a thing? What if something like that could exist in highsec wars?

(Dantelion Shinoni) #556

I have no problem with something like that existing into highsec. One of the problems of highsec is the lack of conflict drivers, add the proper ones and there will be NPSI-fleets there too.

What I am talking about is not just taking the problem of wardecs and going “just let people do whatever they want in some kind of chaos, it’s a sandbox”, which is essentially what you did.

(Tipa Riot) #557

Chaos aka lowsec only around structure bashes, everything else keeps highsec rules.

(Brisc Rubal) #558

Honestly, we gave them some ideas at the summit, and you’ll see some of those discussions in the minutes, while some were left out because of the NDA.

Frankly, at this point, I want to see what CCP comes up with, rather than give them ideas. In the end, this is their problem to solve, and I want to see where they’re going with it.

Here’s a link to the discord https://discord.gg/DMShWYp

(Brisc Rubal) #559

My job is to represent the players to CCP.

I have to talk to players and listen to them to do this job.

(Dantelion Shinoni) #560

The very problem is those high-sec rules though…

(Lulu Lunette) #561

Maybe relevant

I think it’s dumb to hide behind the NDA if there’s already a plan in place. This is a huge change to the game and I feel like it would do more damage to withhold what is next for wardecs.

As for me, wardecs never meant anything. I’ve had a few of them but I was too addicted to Eve to actually quit playing for a week. I had jump clones installed in places too scary for the highseccers.

I guess this change was not for my demographic anyway. It does support my theory that CCP wants players to be more dynamic than one dimensional. (Less alts, more mains.)

(Brisc Rubal) #562

That is referring to the already announced temporary fix of requiring a corporation to own a stucture before they can be war decked. That’s not NDA - it was announced at Vegas.

As for the longer-term revamp, to my knowledge it is still being developed.

(anas moraished) #563

The activity that i can do in high sec is:
Ganging (not me doing it but ppl do)

First issue is the gab in income between Null sec and high sec (Low sec i do not think it is a place for income).

Mission will pay me 15M per hour so it is better for me to move to null to gain 60M per hour not including loot.

Trading can be good as income but need you to get raw material your self .

Incursion being told it is good but not sure if it is under the control of some group.

Hauling is too risky cause ppl dose not pay good amount and ganging always around.

Ganging is fun for some but pain for others.

Exploring is bad in high sec and i remember i was checking like 30 systems and got loot worth 12M

I suggest to fix that by the next:
1- Band ganging in high sec totally and no one can disable the safety.
2- Make a system for courier that is default so it is generate the price depend on the jump number let us
say 6M per system jump and that including JF and normal Frighter.
3- Exploring I do not know how it can be fixed.
4- Mission can be fixed simply by increasing the ISK reward.Burner mission should be under specific agent.