what’s up with that phrasal “Non-consensual PvP”? I dont get it. I learned back in the days, there is pvp everywhere. And you should undock only things that you can afford to lose.
Everyone have to earn isk in the game. if you can’t live from pvp, you may should hunt ships with dead space mods on it.
i think it is wrong if hunters get more than the loot and the killmail.
Just for reference, CCP do also talk with new players. Generally getting complete newbies to try things.
also we talk with them.
I’m not a fan of the usage of the term myself, but what he’s meaning is:
PvP where the target didn’t set out for it, but does have a chance to fight back.
So not a gank in highsec, or people roaming running into a defence fleet (consensual by his definition).
Hmph, Vily needs to fire himself from the CSM, for starters…
I take offense at being called a bot, if none of you CSM folks know anything about HS then keep your mouths shut.
These minutes show a strong bias for Nullsec and NUllsec only with no regard to other regions of space…
Which brings me to this point @CCP_Rattati you talk about depleting bounties…you better make that a nullsec region only thing if you go with that, otherwise you are just gutting the game for no reason at all, especially for newer players as some in the minutes have spoken those players cant afford even a cruiser doing the lower level missions even after days of playing.
Elect a highsec representative next time then.
I think the wider point here is that these perceived issues would not be solved by electing a hisec CSM member, but rather that all members of the CSM should at least be seen to focus their attention to all aspects of the game equally.
I think there is possibly a point to be had in that their focus is a little null empire centric. Unfortunately frivolous remarks such as the one made by Vily will only serve to cement such opinion.
For sure, there are definately issues with the CSM (that is, the organisation and structure as opposed to the individuals), but I doubt we’ll see much change in this respect.
Why should they?
Because they’re supposed to be representing the WHOLE playerbase, not just their tiny corner of it.
…so elect a high sec representative then.
The CSM represents a vague and ambiguous “Community of EVE players”. That doesn’t mean they must represent your specific style of gameplay. If you want high sec representation, then elect a high sec rep.
Edit: On that note, have you even tried to reach out to any of the CSM members? They’re fairly easily accessible on r/eve, discord, twitter, in-game mails, etc.
If those with some small degree of influence only focus on their own potentially selfish interests then, whether by neglect or design, the wider game can only suffer.
A simple retort would be for me to ask you to explain why you believe that the CSM should not care about all aspects of the game - that’s rhetorical btw, as we could sit here trading inane questions all day, but that achieves precisely nothing.
Steve,
Off topic I know but…since you are replying to people about the game mechanics and CSM proposals/ comments etc…
Can you or someone on the CSM talk to CCP about the Raznaborg Damavik NPCs in highsec.
You scan them down, kill them off and they are back in system 15 seconds later.
To sum up their impact, Zkill shows 17,000 frigates have died to them in the 9 months since their introduction. Most of which are ventures.
This can’t be good for newbro retention and or emergent gameplay.
I’ll mention it.
Reading the CSM summit minutes with special focus on stalmate and new player experience, I’m a bit surprised why many of the obvious problems and so little options for solving them were discussed. I always thought, such a summit is a brainstorming event, where ideas - many ideas - are offered and discussed from many (if not all) perspectives.
Some examples:
New player experience: We all know that the number of options are way too many to be overlooked by a new player. It is simply not possible to consider all facts and make a solid decision. Asking at the start if the new pilot is an alt (with no need of intense help) or a realy new player who can choose to get intense help AND special protection. To flag them, visible for others, is a bad idea. Provide a set of challenging missions with comparably very high reward, such as a mandatory training, where the player may get the ship and items destroyed (no loot drop) and 100% replaced until sucess. At the end explain that this was the start, now comes the bitter real life.
The new player first impression is key. If the player is irritated, confused, overwhelmed, what not else - what do you expect?
The first player corp to be joined is critical. Maybe this should be moderated? Such as, only handchoosen and CCP-registered corps are able to accept those new player that had not been in any other player corp before.
Boring missions: Limit the availability of all of the lvl1-lvl3 missions to be run only once but increase rewards and standing gain accordingly.
Role play / faction matters: why not have a special role bonus for each ship hull that is activated by a pilot of the correct faction only. If the bonus can be felt but is not deciding critical, it will be an incentive to stay with your faction for some time (you get a compensate for low SP level) and will limit the options for the new player.
New player confusion: Yes, the obvious Red Dot confusion. It is buggy. It has illogical behaviour, it is confusing. A new player must get the impression: either ‘this is intentional and I will never understand that’ or ‘wow, how buggy and nobody cares to correct it’. Choose one.
New player repellant: High-sec wars. This specifically hurts new player. It may be overcome with the hand-selected first corps.
Ratting, mining, other resource harvest: A very natural behaviour (btw, easy to understand) wolud be, that the re-growth of resources (mineral, gas, rats) will be slower the more intense the harvest is done.
Incentive against stalmate: what if ships (and modules to a certain extent) require faction specific resources that are naturally available only in faction-related regions? What if there is something like permanent development of ships and modules that swapp the power pendulum from one to another faction - ca. 2-4 times per year?
o7
Thanks for the detailed feedback. I’ll make sure this gets back to the right people! We do a lot of targeted outreach toward new players, but not everyone hears from us, and I’m very sorry you didn’t.
In any case, please keep posting your thoughts on the forums and even if we don’t always respond, we’ll be here to see it.
Seems many people consider Steve to be the “Highsec representative”. I’d hardly consider that to be true at all, but hey.
That said, the reason why there will never be a Highsec CSM member is because of the amount of organization that large groups in Nullsec have. All of Wormhole space was able to get behind a single candidate, while Highsec contains the bulk of the games playerbase… players that are far more casual and split up than Nullsec. Players that lack the tribalism and desire to see THEIR representative on the CSM.
I’ve had the chance to speak with 2 different CSM members and what it boiled down to was them thinking they knew better. I could write a god damn 80 page manifesto on the problems surrounding Highsec and ask for a CSM member to hand it to someone and it wouldnt get done.
Your average player has a very narrow view of what Highsec should be and doesn’t see the immense potential there. It’s no wonder they are totally fine with “fixing” Wardecs in a way that purely benefits N+1 and then calling it finished.
You say these representatives are accessible, but they are only accessible and open-minded to what pertains to them. Gobbins and Vily are happy with Highsec. I imagine they only care that they have the Keepstar intact to split profits among their consortium.
Suspect flag for incursion runners? What an absolute moron. They actually asked for special ships for streamers that are basically unkillable? Really, can they not think 2 steps past their terrible ideas? Folks these are the people providing feedback to CCP, idiots.
I don’t ever think I know better than anybody else. I just don’t always agree with other people’s opinions on what is good and what is bad.
The thing is I don’t believe your job is to take what I tell you and discard it in the trash. You job ought to be packing my thoughts and presenting them as feedback on behalf of the playerbase.
You might not agree with areas that I see potential conflict drivers in, but CCP might take the idea and create something out of it. It’s not your job to pick and choose who is right and that most definitely is what goes on.
——
Edit: Be honest. Did you ever take my feedback to CCP about how I correctly predicted what would happen to wars and war dec groups in an N+1 kill the structure environment?
How these changes would drive the major groups together?
How the hope of two-sided content coming from structures wouldn’t happen as intended?
Have you ever really presented how Locator Agents are absolutely broken?
I can keep going.
Of course it is. When I was on the CSM, I got absolutely absurd ideas thrown at me 24/7. Was it my job to bring up crazy ideas like banning all PvP in highsec, or titans with mining lasers, or buffing rorqual mining capacity? I got those ideas all the time. Should I have passed those on to CCP?
I presented the issues with locator agents as you guys explained it to me. As for the rest, the results of the war dec changes, which weren’t completed until I was off the CSM, weren’t clear when I was in a position to provide some feedback.
It would depend on how many players you have telling you those things would be cool. CCP develops for their consumers. If they create things they don’t want to consume then it doesn’t seem very productive.
Sure Titans with mining lasers sounds silly but if they presented you with logical reasoning and had a group of players behind them to agree… sure why not.
In the examples I gave you last post, you were invited to a discord that specifically housed players that could tell you what was desired, lacking, broken, and being exploited. You saw lots of heated discussions and a lot of nonsense at times. It appeared you were listening but it’s clear now that ultimately you cared about only 2 things:
Shielding new and unwilling players (shielding new players is a good idea fwiw)
Ensuring that the mechanic benefitted N+1 groups the most
There was nothing that enhanced the experience of War Decs.
How many War HQs have been taken out in total since then?
It would be different if your personal desire for N+1 gameplay actually resulted in something interesting. What did it do? You made sure that only the largest groups can have the fun. You made sure that if there is anything worth having in Highsec that the largest groups would get theirs first. Look at the Keepstar in Perimeter… instead of it creating content it’s caused the groups in the Nullsec blue donut to blue even their enemies in Highsec for the sake of a trade consortium that has little risk of content or attack. Instead of having massive battles where your typical N+1 groups were going at each other in Highsec with no risk of oppressive Capital blobbing over a financial carrot on a stick, you have peace. A treaty among enemies to mutually benefit. Your playstyle is literally cancer.
I guarantee you if CCP were to pull the data on locator agents, they’d see a ski slope. Do you know why people using locator agents is an important metric? I’m genuinely curious.
To top it off when the War changes were released there were groups of people that popped their head in the Discord to claim their moral victory where there was none. All there happened was frustration that CCP listened to players that have very little to do with wars.
Congrats on your win. I’m curious to any of you current CSM members… does CCP ever ask about player feedback on Highsec and specifically Highsec pvp? Or has all they done is posted metrics about how retention is up? @Steve_Ronuken
Rorqual mining capacity was buffed and turned this ship, which originally was designed as boosting support ship, into virtually the only mining ship in null sec. As for Titans with Mining Lasers. Not only did they exist in the past as joke, but Rorqual tank was also buffed so ridiculously that it could tank titans. Someone clearly passed those stupid ideas on to CCP and CCP happily listened.
As for the other ideas: I (don’t) trust your ability to see garbage when it is being presented to you. If not, why were you on the CSM if you could not judge properly?