I have to say that I used to believe in the premise of the CSM. I still believe in the ideal of it but, year after year of over-representation by null blocs and FC’s seeming focus on making the game benefit null players at the expense of non-null, has lead me to the same conclusion.
You know something is wrong when a well-known former multi-term CSM member (who advocates for high and low sec players and actually communicates with players on THESE FORUMS) can’t get elected over totally unknown entities who are part of the null blocs.
Please spare me the tired argument about high/low/wormhole players needing to organize and galvanize behind candidates to represent our interests. You know that’s a fool’s errand and it’s easier to herd cats. We’re too diverse and independent a group by nature to line up and do as we’re told and there’s no one holding a hammer over us to force us to do anything. Never gonna happen.
As Arthur and so many others have observed the CSM game is rigged. I’ll still vote (probably) just as a protest but, meh. I have no expectations of fairness anymore. And that, friends, is sad.
I agree with you on most of your post. But the rigged part depends – I don’t believe there’s election fraud going on in CSM elections, no. But having been part of a large nullbloc for years I know how it’s done down there. They tell their members how to vote. And while it’s just that – in the form of some eve mails containing select candidate names – it’s still voter manipulation. That I disapprove of hugely. It’s always been distasteful to me, and I voted against their recommendations when I was part of null in protest of such a behavior. But most nullsec members go along with it.
all right man I’m ready. Let’s have a public debate right now… Dude who is new at public forums. Lol. Let’s see who’s side you’re on. You know the reason I shared that story about CSM meetings with CCP is because it is literally what was shared by past and current members of the CSM on how these meetings occur. I’m saying everything but giving you the names.
You can start by quoting and answering the others first.
Explain to us how these meetings occur if we have been informed incorrectly.
What is your stance on this meeting becoming a public stream?
Why has 18 years of CSM produced the same results it’s entire existence?
A great politician knows how to take questions.
(The player revolt started against the TTT… It has not ended and won’t until nullsec goes back to nullsec. Be it political or the removal of War HQs)
The elections aren’t rigged. They are, and remain, like any election, a popularity contest.
To win, you’ve got to have a wide enough base of support and you’ve got to convince those supporters to show up and vote.
The null groups - and honestly, in this instance, we’re just talking Imperium because PanFam and WinterCo do not have the track record that the Imperium does when it comes to winning elections - care about the CSM and do their best to make sure they have members on it. With groups that large and that organized, it’s inevitable they win a handful of seats (even the biggest nullbloc can’t guarantee more than two or three seats at most depending on turnout).
Reason Mike didn’t win last time is simple. The game has a ton of new people, many of whom have never interacted with him, and while he posts here, the vast majority of players are on other sites like Twitch, Youtube and Reddit. If you’re not engaging there in a meaningful way, you aren’t reaching most players.
I know you don’t want to hear the “tired argument” but that’s the only way a non-big group aligned player is going to get elected, short of buying votes. You have to put the work in, unify the tribes or whatever, and convince people to vote for you.
As for the “they tell their people how to vote” - sure. Everybody does that. Ever walk into the polls on election day and get handed a sample ballot? The big groups do their best to motivate their members to vote, and they give people a list of folks to vote for. It makes things much easier, and it makes it more likely that people actually will vote. There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s not like any of the groups can compel their members to vote nor can they verify that their members voted the sample ballot/ticket.
This is why it’s easier, in real life, to win if you’ve got a political party behind you.
This doesn’t mean the system is rigged. It’s simply the way it is, and if folks want to succeed, they’ve got to learn how to make the system work for them.
You are definitely leading by example right now. Everyone agrees with everything you just said because you’re obviously right. There’s no other way for you to be a CSM right now other than being completely right and winning the popularity contest. The rest of us just need to accept that. Could you please tell me more of the things that I need to accept.
Tell us again how a popularity vote doesn’t end with an obvious result…
Go ahead and tell us why the House of Representatives is not the only body of government.
I noticed you didn’t answer individual questions with individual answers…
I’ll try again…
Why is the House of Representatives not the only body of government? A simple answer is all that’s needed to speak the truth. That’s why you won’t answer. That’s why you skipped all the questions.
Question:
Why is the House of Representatives not the only body of government?
Answer:
(insert here)
Go ahead, destroy 18 years of a delusion.
(FCcp is smart enough to know im correct, are you?)
While I feel bad for Mike, Brisc wrote nothing wrong.
A step back, or maybe two is needed here.
1 - DO NOT confuse CSM with RL democracy, ffs;
2 - CSM is a pat in the back from FCCP to NS, they deserve it, they kinda control the majority of cash income, that does not mean CSM has any power, it’s just soft politics.
The only real part about CSM is the politics, when you spent that amount of money, you demand a seat.
@Asgidur_Hurtini Brilliant man. Agreed. Eve is the closest thing to IRL as a game can get in many ways but not all ways. I know that I am a small voice in a large room with booming voices.
Player driven economies don’t have NPC buy orders propping up entire sectors either FCcp…
Question:
Why is the House of Representatives not the only body of government?
Answer: (because roleplay csm wont acknowledge facts ) The “Tyranny of the Majority”: The House allocates seats based on population. If it were the only branch, highly populated states (like California and Texas) would completely dominate national politics, leaving smaller states with virtually no voice or protection. The Senate was created to balance this by giving every state exactly two seats. - Gemini 3 Pro
I skipped the questions because they are stupid questions.
Anytime somebody on the internet demands you respond to a raft of questions, they are not asking in good faith. That’s now how people talk to each other.
The CSM is not a legislative body. It’s a focus group. CCP wants to hear from players, and letting the players choose who the company hears from is how they’ve chosen to set things up. Over the years the way the CSM works has changed and its purpose has changed. And now, in addition to democracy, they choose two players to serve, in addition to those elected. That lets the company hear from a wider voice than just the folks who can win the popularity contest.
You guys are free to remain as cynical as you want, repeating the same debunked nonsense people have been saying for years that you never read because you just got here, but that doesn’t make what you’re saying correct or helpful.
Just understand that nobody but the voters are putting these nullsec players you don’t like on this focus group.
Or maybe they just don’t know any better. People have been proclaiming aliens exist, the mob killed JFK, and all kinds of stupid things that aren’t true. Being repeated over and over does not turn ■■■■■■■■ into fact.
So all these people that have been saying the same thing for years… All these guys screaming at the CSM is fake and nothing but a null puppet…
All these guys that won’t even vote because it’s a joke…
They just don’t know any better huh. And you’re here to fix it right.
The CSM exists because CCP was caught in a scandal twenty years ago when one of their developers was spawning expensive Tech 2 BPOs for his alliance. It was designed as a way to earn back player trust by letting some players see behind the curtain.
Since that time it’s turned into a focus group for the company, where they can ping ideas off active players and those players get a chance to influence the development process, although 75% of it is about reacting to CCP plans. The CSM is pretty good at stopping CCP from doing stupid things, and not at all good at getting them to actively do things they don’t otherwise intend to do. The company is very wary of getting metagamed by the CSM.
Money has nothing to do with anything. It wasn’t until CSM 6 or so that nullsec even cared about the CSM, and it was largely as a result of changes made by CCP that negatively impacted null that the null blocs even bothered with it.
2 - CSM is a pat in the back from FCCP to NS, they deserve it, they kinda control the majority of cash income, that does not mean CSM has any power, it’s just soft politics.
)