So… is “a failure in leadership” the answer we are being given? Hopefully that is not an uncharitable assessment of “leadership being misled”.
If I understand the “He” here right, it wasn’t just “anyone” who had “a failure in leadership”. It was D’ceet, who made the recommendation.
A reasonable follow up question: What are D’ceet’s other experiences as an FC and leader that could outweigh a failure in leadership on botting, and how does this inspire a leadership role on the CSM?
It did not take much devops knowledge about “what a memory address is” to observe “wow, a neutral jumped into our system and 0 seconds later it’s already reported as a neutral in system on a discord before I have a chance to even right click their name to Show Info”. Did any verification happen at all or was it simply taken at face value?
Is it an unreasonable question to ask: Is this the level of care that D’ceet would go into analyzing CCPs claims when they present information to the CSM, should they actually be on the CSM? Or will CCP’s proposed changes and rationale simply be taken at face value?
I’m not bothered. Such a coordinated attempt to discredit d’ceet by these dinguses is an endorsement in my eyes. LMFAO Sean “You’re a digrace to this community” for not diving into a github, do you read the words that you type? Io’s post history show them to be wannabe hunter who whine when people don’t come out to fite them. If I had a post history as whiney and cringe as these jabronies I’d uninstall.
You should probably re-read. He’s being accused of being ignorant to an obvious bot. The GitHub stuff is ancillary and not required to know that a 24/7 instant-response intel service is deeply deeply suspect, if not humanly impossible. So either the guy isn’t too bright, or is complicit. Neither is a great endorsement.
Oh dear! I ask fair but pointed questions, in my view.
And yet the questions were so non-threatening, “cringey”, and “whiney” that some Gooseflock rando was motivated enough to spin up a lossmail-dominated forum alt to sling hallucinated accusations about my conduct on the forums and letting their imagination run wild with how I enjoy the game. Hate to break it to you, but this forum thread isn’t about me.
D’ceet has an opportunity to address these questions, and to be quite honest it would be a breath of fresh air to see a candidate own mistakes and oversights, bonus if they learn and grow from these sorts of experiences. Only assholes would keep punching him down in that case.
But we all know the Eve Online community status quo is to bust out the ego based response instead and play make-believe about “jabronies”.
Expecting D’Ceet to know what a memory address is and how it could possibly relate to botting when he is not a technical person at all is a massive stretch
I think anyone who’s been playing Eve for any length of time, and has used the cobbled together chat scraping Intel tools, knows the capabilities of EULA compliant software. Yet someone comes along with a vastly more capable and robust tool, that nobody else in Eve history managed, without raising any questions from your leadership?
If you believe that, I’ve got a lowsec gate to Stain to sell you…
Not all of us are THAT old of EVE vets, software vets, or are knowledgeable whatsoever about the actual background functionality of ANYTHING digital we touch.
In the 21st century we’re used to things just working. Being near-instantaneous, if not INSTANTANEOUS, and producing useful or entertaining results.
Yet somehow it’s unthinkable that the majority of us - me included, a non-savvy linemember from an ally corp - looked at skynet and went “well, it helps us, and they said it’s fine, so I believe them. Back to grinding out rats for me”?
I’m worried about getting blobbed to death by hot-drops or losing my packed DST on a long-haul from a core world, but it’s never occurred to me once to worry about and question someone in leadership that only ever treated everyone nicely. What reason would I have to?
But D’ceet isn’t just some line member. That’s the point. They’re here asking to be given a position of responsibility in representing the interests of the playerbase, and regardless of the outcome wrt CCP and the EULA violations, this incident shows that D’ceet either lacks the critical thinking required to know when something is too good to be true, or the experience you know that when something looks too good to be true, it usually isn’t.
I’m sure D’ceet is a lovely person, but as a CSM candidate, I think we can do better.
If I were to ask you, without any of this context, if you thought automating any part of your gameplay would be ok, knowing whatever it is you know about EULA, what would your answer be? What about your friends or corp members?
What if I asked you what your definition of ‘botting’ is?
All of this aside, I agree with the poster above. D’ceet isn’t just a line member, nor are any of the previous posters defending this. They should have known better, they did know better, they are just upset that they have been outed. I honestly refuse to believe that someone who considers themself the ‘IT person for gooseflock featheration’ did not have knowledge of potential EULA violating software. It is their job to know.
What is there to “what” about? Karlet specifically called me out (my name is the very first word in this quote):
I don’t need you to act as disciplinarian of Karlet, I’ve faced far worse in my past years on these forums. I’m just mystified how I get a “what” for responding to a post that singles me out. Their forum profile shows they joined 4 days ago and their killboard is nothing but small lossmails so everything in my prickly retort is accurate.
I’m not going to respond to this off-topic derail anymore – this is D’ceet’s thread, not mine.
I haven’t been playing long (started this year), but automating killmails (ZKillboard) and market data (like Janice) seems chill. I have no clue beyond that, and was told that the intel “system” was similar to those.
Much like any good capitalist citizen, my knowledge of the EULA is far from comprehensive, and using common sense and common decency has been more than adequate for anything I’ve personally ever done.
I can’t speak to the knowledge and stance of all my friends in EVE, as there are many, but I don’t tend to ask questions like “do you think botting is bad” because anytime it comes up everybody scorns it.
My definition of botting? The only thing I have ever considered before this was “a computer program that runs Ishtars in deep space to farm 24/7 money for blocs”.
By following the Github link of the person that created the intel system and reading the Readme, it’s clear this is almost exactly what was happening.
I apologize, I am not attacking you or other line members, and I can see that it may come across that way. My issue is with the leadership profiting from this, blatantly lying about it, and in turn risking the accounts of line members that may get caught up in the crossfire.
I read/watched the whole “exposed” info and there’s no actual evidence Elusif was running ratting bots. You have code, but unlike the skynet system you don’t actually have any proof it existed in practice.
It’s assumption - and when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.
I respect your stance about not blaming the linemembers, as so far as I know none of us knew what was going on and should surely not be punished for the creation of one misguided man.
But you’re stretching the narrative. Skynet was bad, real bad, and it’s provable that it was in use. But a theory that there are/were botfarms is nothing but that: A theory
and prosecuting people off of theory is not common sense nor common decency.
See here for information on the botting. Again, I am not blaming leadership for botting themselves, but from profiting from it and being very aware of it, as is explained in the link.
There’s still no actual evidence of ratter botting in any of this, folks. I don’t like what Elusif did with skynet, but you have guesses and circumstantial assumptions about this other thing. Nothing more.
I read up on the situation and the last known instance of Elusif botting was 7+ years ago, according to accounts on the original post.
Also geese are sarcastic as heck. It’s one of their best qualities. You really think that unironically using the phrase “laundering” in a public channel makes any sense?
