Dear EVE, here is why I say goodbye

(Don ZOLA) #63

I am not suggesting anything, it is a fact that new players can be involved in “old players” games and fights and even beat them at it.

Actually it does, because your statement was “Would you go in the ring with a boxer 20 pound heavier, a head higher, generally better condition and 10 years of experience, while you just learned how to bind your bandages? I didn’t think so”. And it is obviously not true (as the most of your WoT). Skills are not the same as SP nor SP equals fun. Is the point of game to have fun and enjoy it or to get to “end game” as fast as possible? If they understand PVP mechanics better that means they will also be more efficient at focusing their SP in direction they want to move, they will also be capable of making isk with farming and purchasing injectors or new chars and what is the most important they will enjoy the fights and have fun in the game.

It is funny to jump on “you are not even playing” point without being aware that this game enables multiple accounts and characters. I mean, did you really try to make a point with that? What if this character is used for something else than PVP? Is it dead then? That logic used, topic author does not even exist or play so why should he write anything?

Man up would mean to stop being whiner, accept the game as it is and play it. Eve is easiest ever, it is like a baby friendly version of original game. Should we go next step and make it retard friendly? Considering that the charm of eve and whole story approach was “No one can hear you scream in space”, where the game was famous for being ruthless and hard and considering that is the thing which attracted the most of player base to it you would prefer to go in different direction. You can either "stupidly accept the game as the majority of players prefer it (it would be dead long time ago or everyone would play on SISI if any of your assumptions was right) or go on rant why it needs to be changed to suit your Royal Highness ass more, because it only matters what you say/want, others have no clue anyway and you are actually doing a favor to almost dead game :joy:

Since I can understand why you have no idea what a man is (or at least should be) I will let you know that it is not a person who whines, complains and tries to get things easy way. Situation, whatever it is like, is there and you do your best to overcome it, you fight. You adapt or die - EvE.

I will suggest you two options for solution:

1. STFU and play as it is, get the most fun out of it as that is the point
2. Organize migration of people who think like you to SISI, if you have enough people as you think (which I highly doubt) you can have the game you wanted there + if the numbers are really high CCP would have to react and adjust the game in direction you want ie do the walk for your talk.

Since I consider you selfish weakling, I assume you are not ready for either so you will just continue spamming here. Pity this great support you and topic author give to each other (probably your alt but never mind :D) is not recognized by the public :smile: And I hope you will understand that I do not have much time to play with trolls (even though you are very well expressed one) or even worse - Illusionists de grandeur :wink: so I will not go into deep analysis of all wrong parts of your statements based on no facts but just your opinion.

P.S. Before you reply, ask yourself why SISI does not have more players playing there? Why are you not there playing with people who agree with you? Got the point?

Also, if OP has played for 7 years and then after it started from a scratch, that sounds like a RMT case to me? What did stop him from continuing to play on old chars? Deleting chars stopped him? - They can be resurrected still, just need to petition it) so stop that crap. Either he RMTed or he made up whole story :slight_smile: to fit in the rest of his manipulative narrative.

(zluq zabaa) #64

Everybody knows that Frigs are “End Game”, lel. Also, having maxed out support Skills for a ship makes a huge difference. It’s a fact.

Well, how exactly are these things connected? Farming/Grinding is only attractive for a specific kind of crowd and even for those, as OP showed in his opening post, the grind is much too long. Just run the numbers for yourself.

As I said, your image what it means to “man up” sounds like a spineless worm to me. If man equals being tough, there is nothing more tough than trying to change the stream. Accepting things one doesn’t like, isn’t tough, it is the mentality of being a worm.

I’m totally for making EVE much much much harder - but for everyone. Older players should be happy if newer players sooner reach equal SP levels, so if these new guys learn fast they can pose a serious threat and keep the older ones on their toes. Right now it is in many ways too easy, especially for older players, which makes them bored. Some people are happy to farm newbros, but I personally think it isn’t much of a challenge and gets old pretty fast.

Lol, why so salty?

You are the one whining. OP and me are supporting faster progression so that new players and old players find more interesting content in each other. If you are an old player, all your argumentation tells me is that you’d probably ragequit the game if you couldn’t enjoy your advantage anymore. You are the weak that needs to be purged from the game.

Don’t twist your brain too hard, it could hurt. I’m not selfish, because I want EVE to be challenging for everyone. You on the other hand want to enjoy your time-bound advantage. That’s selfish, that’s weak.

The majority of players who leave the game early-on will not discuss on the forums as you will probably understand.

Ah okay, until now I had some final doubt that you might not just be a troll. Posting from an inactive char, not having the balls to post from your main, calling people who reply with arguments trolls, but then stating … reasons … for not bringing arguments yourself.

There is no good reason why SP progression shouldn’t be faster. None. You named none. Exactly zero.

Ask yourself that. Did you even log in to SiSi once? How about that: PVP options limited by rules, SP progression the same as on TQ (with temporary option to get 2M SP here and there - until the next mirror) and lack of activity which breeds activity. Do you have any other straws to grasp on?

(Don ZOLA) #65


Actually they are connected, but I am not surprised you do not understand how. If you know what you need and you know where to focus you will not waste time/sp in unnecessary skills. Therefore you will be way more effective in your training. Capiche?

Your illusion de grandeur makes you trip being a knight in shiny armor I guess. Eve is about the challenge not about making that challenge weaker. And every single player regardless of SP has its own challenges in which ever career he chooses. Accepting thing one doesn`t like is totally ok, so is making fun of them for being weaklings.

Nope, new guys can pose a serious threat to old players even on alliance levels, there are plenty of doctrines which are based on small ships which do not take long time to train. I am sure there would be plenty of whining threads from old bros as well if they were bored or there would be significant part of old players quiting due to boredom which CCP would notice and probably (not) react (as they dont care about vets :slight_smile: ).

I am not whining, I am making fun of you and your childish requests. What exact advantage I have, I most often fly small ships, something any new player can do very soon as well. Good luck purging me, I am not quiting whiner, I adapt :wink:

Eve is challenging for everyone, you are just complaining it is too challenging for new players, right? My time/money bound advantage can now be overcome with instant/money so what are you waiting for? You have advantage most of us old players did not have.

Maybe majority of those players quit due to reasons not related to your whining? Or you claim you know, you had done survey over thousands of players who quit so you know? :joy:

Ah okay, until now I had some final doubt that you might not just be selfish illusionist de grandeur who thinks game should change in direction he likes no matter what others think. This is my main character which I currently use for trading (it has only 280mil sp so I feel weak in it, if you know what I mean). I have other characters which I use for other roles.

Remind me please of a single real argument you used?

There are plenty of good reasons, find older threads - especially discussion about skill injectors (300 pages there). There are some even in this topic, if you were able to listen and comprehend what others are saying you would see. As I said earlier, EVE:GO sound like a perfect game for you.

I actually logged 3 times last week only. Rules can be adjusted, you move to parts of space where you and likewise players can agree to whatever rules you want, if no one complains to CCP there will be no issues. SP can easily be overcome with injectors? Lack of activity? Well that is what you and likewise should bring, you should have a lot of other players who agree with you, should be more than enough for some serious fun. 5vs5 ClanWar comes to mind :joy:

Do you have anything more to whine about? Or you might understand that you have nowhere near critical mass to do any change because beside OP and you there is very minor group of players that think the same? If so, then stop everyone`s time, thanks :smiley:

(Donnachadh) #66

If you bothered to read you would have known that my comments specifically addressed the “loot” tables for PvE activities. Yes those loot tables have been nerfed into the ground in the past few years, not all that long ago one could clear 80 to 100 mil simply by full clear loot / salvage both halves of worlds collide and they could do so on a consistent basis, today you are lucky to clear 50 mil for that same mission and 30 to 40 mil is closer to what you can expect. While we are at it let us not forget the nerf to rouge drones, the reduction in the loot tables for them alone cause many / most players to leave the rouge drone areas of nul sec and in fact virtually every mission runner I know simply declines rouge drone missions because they are not worth wasting your time on.

Last time I checked Gecko never were and still are not part of the loot tables for PvE activities so they are not relevant to my comments. Setting that aspect aside something left behind by another player has virtually no impact on the markets because what was purchased and then left behind usually is replaced by you guessed it buying another from the market.

We do not want or need more CCP sponsored or game provided events. Players who are attracted to these do not want to get out and interact with others in game, they just want to be left alone to run their events, at least that is what I see happening. What we need is for CCP to take the dev time wasted on these events and dedicate it to fixing problems in the game and to provide us with more and better tools so we the players can organize and run our own events. Yes folks I know there is nothing stopping one from doing that now but the current set of in game tools and the overall game environment does not really support such activities either.

(Wander Prian) #67

Speeding up the rate that players earn SP will only make new players lose things even more due to not having learned the mechanics yet. You can see what happens to wallet warriors who buy themselves the SP to fly their dream ship by checking killboards.

What the current skill training system allows if for you to grow your skills as a player while you train up your characters skills. All the big new player organisations teach their members how to play Eve, how to put your limited skills to good use, how to make ISK, how to fight, etc. For some reason, they all seem to do decently well with a good number of members who go join other corporations.

It seems that this issue of new players hitting a SP-wall affects mostly those who play dolo, don’t understand the mechanics of Eve and only stare at the time needed for lvl 5 everything. At this point, I’d blame all the bittervets who are stuck in their ways.

Eve has never been easier to get into. There’s plenty of corporations teaching new players the ropes and get them ready for the future. Eve isn’t like other MMO’s and if you aren’t able to get change your expectations, you won’t last long.

(Don ZOLA) #68

How dare you, game should be changed to what he would like :joy:

(Keno Skir) #69

It’s not my fault you replied me about loot tables, i was talking about new players making money by scanning down missioners or drones and taking anything of worth that isn’t nailed down. The thread is about how new players can’t do anything or save 165M because of low SP, which is blatantly and demonstrably false. There have been several threads recently about how profitable drone hunting in hisec can be, and my point (that you replied to) was in regard to this easy money maker for low skilled players.

I think maybe because i said the word “loot” you assumed i was talking about stealing metal scraps or something? Either way i did read your post, it just didn’t make any sense.

(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #70

The way it was done before was similar but still very different from what I am suggesting. All people had to do was undock and kill any pirate NPC and dock back up. There was no significant time invested or goal accomplish byour doing tgat tof earnot 10,000 SP.

My suggestion is to make it require significant time and effort to earn the extra SP from being active in game.

(Boldly Gone) #71

Yeah, it even doesn’t have to be much, a boost in say “willpower” as long as you are mining or “memory” while manufacturing and being online won’t be too complicated to implement.

(Wander Prian) #72

Making changes to attributes and skill-training may not be as easy as you think. They are some of the oldest systems in Eve and the dreaded legacy-code -issues are bound to happen.

(Xenos Monith Maulerant) #73

This is a really cool idea where it is rewarding you specifically towards the attribute your activity is generally related to.

(Teckos Pech) #74

Consider the source though. Would I want to climb the SP wall…again? No. Why? Because I already did it. Why do it again?

Would I climb it if I were totally and completely brand new? Maybe (I’m not the same guy I was nearly 10 years ago, I might not opt to play the game at all irrespective of the SP wall).

In other words, climbing it the first time was one thing. Going and doing it all over again? Probably not. That does not mean a brand new player would not make that climb.

And as you note, there are ways to make that climb go more quickly. Buy a character, buy injectors. But asking for a discount when none is being offered always struck me as smarmy. And technically people do get discounts. If you go out and buy a butt load of PLEX you will get a discount on the price. So the OP is simply saying: Not only do I want that discount I want an even larger discount! In polite company he is an unseemly slob where the rest of us of feel uncomfortable because he is not even aware of his own extreme uncouth nature.

And you are still not getting the point. Back in the day lots of things were not a nice as today. We have unlimited skill queues. You can get JCs without grinding standings. You can anchor things in HS without standings (unless I am mistaken). Production slots have opened up alot. Doing invention back in the day meant you had to have a POS. No more learning skills. But what did we see, PCU went down. And it is all because of the introduction of racial BC and Dessie skills? Give me a break.

I think the issue with declining PCU is more complicated and has to do with reductions and changes to player-on-player interaction. The more players interact the longer they stay.

They were pretty specific. They went out and got 80,000 accounts and then checked those accounts to see how many were ganked killed or not killed and how in each players first 15 days. Note that is not 80,000 players who were only 15 days or less old. It was 80,000 selected, presumably at random, from the player base.

What they found was:

Killed illegally–i.e. ganked stayed the longest.
Killed legally–i.e. killed in a legal fashion in HS, stayed the second longest.
Not killed at all–had the shortest time span in game.

Now they did not give much beyond that, but it is interesting that leaving noobs alone is actually bad for keeping those noobs so they become bitter salty vets.

I have been killed as an almost 10 year veteran by people who do not have nearly as much time in game. Being a “victim” (God I wish people would stop using that fecking word in a video game it makes you sound like a snot nosed sniveling millennial who curls up in the fetus position if I merely utter the words “self-reliant”) is not simply a function of SP. In fact, there are many other variables at play so this notion is just ridiculous. It is really a case of missing the forest because you are obsessed with one particular tree.

Oh…and it is aversion, not adversity, as in risk aversion.

Fun anecdote: in fleet one night people started talking about SP I pointed out I had over 40 million SP In spaceship command and the FC read that in fleet chat and responded with something like, “Holy ■■■■ Teckos you have more SP in spaceship command than I have in everything.” Being an FC is not really SP related, it is more of a personality/individual thing. I know I’d be crap at it.

(Keno Skir) #75

It might just be late but i don’t hate this idea.

(Elarian Francis) #76

WOW I just couldn’t help myself replying to this one…

YES THANK YOU! you just nullified yourself entirely!

Clearly you don’t know the history of EVE. I was in Delve fighting alongside BOB when the events took place so I can tell you from first hand experience.

BOB single handedly held Delve against the combined forces of 80% of EVE. Time after time the goons and other newer player alliances and coalitions tried to overwhelm them with numbers and quantities, attacking from all sides, at all timezones, with 4-10 times bigger numbers.

BOB successfully held their territory in 2 mega wars. It was not only the SP advantage of doing bigger numbers, but a combination of very high SP, very long experience in PVP, an and an endless amount of ISK.

The only way BOB was taken down was when goons gained a director spy in the executor corp and DISBANDED the entire alliance. In one instant BOB lost all sov, a capital fleet, and a huge amount of Isk.

BOB was NEVER defeated militarily no matter how many tens of thousands of newer players with lower SP and less ISK piled on them. They only fell due to a combination of social engineering and crappy alliance/corp mechanics.

Thank you for proving my point once again.

I have yet to hear of a single new player saying: I am against making the game better for new players! I enjoy waiting 45 days for Advanced Spaceship Command V to get a 2% inertia bonus that I’ll never notice. And now I’ll enjoy training another 4 months to get capital skills only to 4.

BItter vets will now reply: You need to spend a year learning the game until you can properly fly a carrier, and I agree. But f it takes a year to learn to fly a few pixels, then that’s not a convincing argument, that’s bad game design!

If CCP’s priority is to make the most complicated/deep game, then go ahead, but the price of that is alienating the majority of gamer market and low subscriber numbers.

If they don’t want to make drastic changes to the game, then go ahead, but the price of that is declining subscriber numbers and losing market share to competitors.

Frankly, the reason I tried EVE a 2nd time is not that I missed the grind and wait, but that I want something to fill the time until SC is playable. Sadly, even in that regard the game is disappointing. 3 years later and it’s still the same game, not much has changed.

From a business point of view, it looks like the game and company are slowly dying. Unless there is a serious change in vision and direction, then subscriber numbers will steadily decline until the company is no longer profitable enough, investors will pull out, and players will log in to see a “sorry, we love this game but we have to shut down”.

(Varanik Rendz) #77

Have you considered that you and a small amount of others are an exception?? spend 30 minutes in help channel or EVE uni and you will see the ISK struggle is REAL for new players.

(Keno Skir) #78

Why would you train it from 4 to 5 if you didn’t think the wait was worth it for the benefit?

(Teckos Pech) #79

First, of it is more than just a 2% bonus, it is a requirement for other skills that allow players to use other ships like freighters, dreadnoughts, and carriers.

Why are there requirements like this? Game balance.

And the “I want to make the game better for new players” is a line of ■■■■■■■■ that has been used again and again but the reality is most of those suggestions are not going to help just new players. In fact, such suggestions are almost always of far more benefit to the more experienced and often richer players.

You know, when I finally got around to making alts I did not make the same mistakes I did the first time. I got the learning skills set up and done ASAP. Got implants installed and started training for whatever I needed the alt for. I didn’t muck around with skills that were going to be largely useless for that alt. My invention alts suck at anything requiring guns. My hauling alt is only good for hauling, no wasted SP there.

So anything you do to improve the game for “new players” you improve it for people like me when they get ready to make alts.

(E-2C Hawkeye) #80

ummm hold on a sec…your saying I am to old to play EVE. I beta tested PONG and I don’t feel to old.

(Keno Skir) #81

Learn too spell.

(JuuR Zibaoo) #82

"Dear EVE, here is why I say goodbye"
good there is on one out there who really cares … ggg