This needs painting on the wall in CCP HQ somewhere.
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It is a common issue that regularly repeats, each generation of managers or devs, has to relearn the lessons that were so painfully learned by their predecessors.
I must admit, seeing how CCP dragon has responded to players, and adapted and changed to realities, I am confident he will take this on board very quickly, he seems to have both an intelligent and flexible attitude that adapts quickly, this is to be applauded and encouraged by us in every way we can.
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Couple of final thoughts…
I am just sad how this whole thing went down - I went out and participated - I looked for the best places, worked on my ship fittings, went out to 0 and low sec, dealt with pirates,gatecamps, took higher risks as usual & put in the hours and had fun doing it, just for the reward of feeling completly let down! And its not only about the ISK here(yes I traded a little bit too) but more about the sense of accomplishment. I would have achieved more if I literally hadn´t played at all - what kind of risk reward structure is that - you play the lottery and if you win you pay us a mill??? Havent heared of this being succesful anywhere. And for the argument of greedy traders - completly stupid - All I wanted was to earn! some ISK in a fun way just to participate in other activities such as FW and PvP and having a little bit of spare money to enjoy and create some content - if this thinking should be punishable well then I guess this game isnt for me. Lastly the argument of speculating - I dont mind losing on the market - if I try trading or fall for scams and such- if it comes from inside the game and I ve learned something in the process - I dont mind! I dont think this was the case here - we were lead to believe to participate in an event that should be rewarding just to turn into “you should have stay docked in Jita and get the reward for free stupid” - That´s not the game I wanna play - I dont mind the ISK - but the time I played.
Well I guess Eve is quite a ride till you fall of hugh?!?!?!?!?
HF yall!
They failed to communicate, that’s it. Since everything in Eve equates to isk, bad information results in lost isk. They didn’t design a bad event that would consequently lose isk. They just described the event badly so we all made flawed decisions as a result. They didn’t intend it this way. They just made a mistake. If they communicate better in the future then it won’t happen again.
So when you say ‘This isn’t the game I want to play’ it doesn’t mean much. The problem isn’t inherent to the game. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a big mistake. I work in development and if I was involved with something like this I’d be hugely embarrassed. But stuff happens and it’s only a game.
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Statistics of day 3: As always only high sec.
Sites done: 50
Named spawned: 58
1 Cruiser: 42
2 Cruiser: 2
1 Cruiser + 1 BC: 6
Loot:
With 1 loot: 24
With 2 loot: 29
With 3 loot: 4
With 4 loot: 0
With 5 loot: 1
Summary of loot: (93 together)
Ore: 31
SE Commodities: 5
Drone Parts: 22
Boosters: 21
Skins: 7
Rogue Swarm Accelerator: 11
BPC: 2
Yoiul Accelerator: 0
Less skins and accuracy compared to yesterday (but this is the random part of it).
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Well I guess if they would have communicated correctly it would have sounded like:“Heres an event that runs for so long that the rewards would actually be worth so little that doing anything else would be more advisable” Thats also a game I dont wanna play - They by accident made it a good event just to turn it back into a worthless timesink. For sure it probably was an honest mistake but man coming from outside the game not from ingame events makes it hard to bear though
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This event was the best of the year, the limited time, drops and ease of running the sites combined with the long expiry dates on the accelerators meant there was meaningful competition. Rens hasn’t felt this busy in months.
Unfortunately since the sites and drops are still there it’s all gone empty again as the value has gone.
I appreciate the free battleships, but I think you should have provided a BPC and minerals so new folks could understand the value of what they were given and the market would absorbed the extra minerals much easier. I bought a Tempest for 75Mil that’s effectively free.
These events are getting better every time, this one was the best, looking forward to the next one.
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I love this event for several reasons:
- Nice skins for all the ships. I cheered when I got an Enforcer skin.
- Better site spawning. Those don’t rack up in backwater systems anymore. Good job!
- Good risk vs. reward when not in HighSec. HS is save but very slow, I like that. When HS was save and gave the same rewards as the other spaces why would anyone not do HS?
- No acceleration gate. While I sweat a bit while doing the sites in our WH no gate is the only way to catch people in space with local.
- Accelerators! Love them! And I speculated that they would come back before X-mas. Now that they never left I am glad I got the right instinct here. Sold my stock of Accelerators at 50-70 mil ISK on Sunday. Guess it sucks a bit for those that betted on skyrocketing prices. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win…
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I know exactly what the percentage was. I’m not assuming. But the numbers that person reported were worse than the percentage. So random was random, and they got the bad end of it. That’s all I was suggesting. And I agree, let’s move on.
I thought it was a good change too. It worked without spawning too many sites. It still required players to move a little bit… sometimes. And it was a tool that has been there in the way sites get distributed, but just not very many people know how to use it here. I just plugged some numbers in and turned it on to see what would happen.
Yeah, still working on it. A lot of variables here: duration of the event is 5 weeks, made the site more available, more bosses per site on average, etc. Hard to balance all that, but it’s a work in progress.
Unfortunately, it appears everyone seems to be thinking that by placing more efficient loot tables in LS that I’m trying to drive people into LS. However, that’s not exactly what we’re trying to do although that seems like an easy way to explain it. Higher risk is higher reward, but that doesn’t mean you can’t get something in low risk areas. It may mean that it’s just harder to get the thing you want in low risk areas. Efficiency of obtaining rewards is a factor we take into consideration.
The real lesson to be learned: risk is relative.
Constructive feedback is always welcome. As a reminder to others, I do not change my mind lightly and comments here such as the ones I responded to are good food for thought and help to challenge my current line of thinking. Challenging our “event doctrine” is something that should always happen, because the player-base changes and we should change with it. However that doesn’t mean change when someone complains, it means have a good reason to change. The challenging of our ideas requires us to know exactly why we believe in them. And if we are unable to back our ideas with solid reasoning… that is when we need to consider changes.
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Actually i don’t recall one event which was so short so it’s rewards didn’t lost price. Every time players overfarm the event so you can get good price for event lootz for day or two.
So if this is what you want from game then … (maybe it’s not Eve?)
Yes. For example 300+ million per hour from supercarrier ratting starts to be more profitable from day 2 or 3 of event… And what does it mean? CCP cannot make everyone have such rewards unless they give pure ISK. Because any item they give starts to fall in price right from first players start to sell it in Jita.
And you got it. I don’t see a problem. You run sites, you got rewards. You can sell it and get ISK.
Again: if you lost because of speculation (read: not selling items right away and keeping them in hopes to sell later) then it was your mistake. Learn from it.
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My space amigos and I really enjoyed this one. I feel like the rewards were awesome and we are still getting a lot of pvp running them in low sec
Thank you for your well thought out response, I am glad to provide feedback, when you are clearly considering it thoughtfully. I personally do not expect you to be swayed by opinion and complaints unless they indicate an underlying issue, or something you may not have witnessed in your testing and experiences.
Regarding the high proportion of low value loot I do accept that my and others experiences may have been at the more extreme negative of the loot range, and that is quite understandable. I do request that you consider the demotivating effect on the players individual experience, when they fall into that unhappy state. It appears emotionally, very hard to break that run of bad luck. As a response, I found the best choice of action, was to walk away for a few hours, hoping It might reset. I freely accept that this was an emotional reaction, and it almost certainly doesn’t actually work this way.
Possibly a slightly less wide range or reduced weighting to the lower extremes might be of value to consider?
Of course you are currently limited to the tools you have available, and possibly already desire this and have plans for the future, anyway, just a suggestion. I am trying to reach across with more than just a data point, and explain the “experience” from the viewpoint of someone who is heavily engaging in the events, purely for your information to have that to work with.
Once again Thank you.
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I finally did the math and CCP pulled a good scam. the old swap the date scam. well glad I only 800mil, others seem to have lost a lot more. o well, whatever keeps the servers running. Really though I would have rather lost it doing PvP. Next time just tell me and I’ll go welp something bling. I can always toss you guys an extra $10 or $20 with my subscription if you really need the money that bad.
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Well right there is the main reason you post. “Schadenfreude”. It was obvious, thanks for admitting it. All these many posts you put into this single thread are full of just that: you being happy that other people feel sad. Endulge in your cringy personal streak, but please stop spam-posting for it. That’s just trolling and it takes too much space.
It’s good to laugh about it 
… but well, while CCP is not directly responsible for you losing 3B or other people losing similar amounts, the game did lie. @CCP_Dragon said it shouldn’t do that, but fact is, it did in this case. While you are a good sport and laugh it off, there are other people - I’m guessing some of which feel the pain in their wallet harder than some others - who can’t. Now we might talk about how this is a game and not to take it too serious and so on, but in the end of the day well all know most people take it serious enough to spend a good amount of time in EVE.
After something like this happens, CCP normally reimburses people. I mean, someone got their AT prizeship reimburses after flying and dying in a site last event. How is that fair? I would rather have a statement that not only acknowledges the issue, but also tells us: sorry guys, no reimbursements, it’s too complicated. Or: well, it wasn’t our fault. At least then we could discuss about it, based on CCPs position on the matter. Personally I would say that every piece of information suggested that the Rogue Drone sites are directly connected to the Arms Race (i.e. most “opportunities” where connected to Rogue Drone sites) and vice versa.
That being said I think some people should chill down a bit. @CCP_Dragon does a really great job at communicating in the Forums and I don’t want that to stop because some of you think you let out your personal frustration on him, getting snappy and such. On top of that, it’s not a nice way to talk to someone, so chill the ■■■■ down.
Well, there is also the issue of people thinking that they have only 7 days to run the sites in order to get accelerators for their own use. As several people stated, they would have done it over the holidays instead and possibly in a more relaxed way - plus - as we know now, with higher drop rates. Changing the rules mid-way does seem to create a bit of frustration, apart from the people who enjoy the frustration of others.
As I’ve said before: no information is fine. Wrong information is questionable. Unless we start to do the latter for all things in EVE, for everyone, in every single case. I’d be fine with that, as it would turn Spreadsheet Online into something else, something truly chaotic 
Example: “So you guys thought Athanors would cost X amount of Tier 4 PI to build? Well surprise mofos, they can be build from 1 piece of Carbon. Thanks for sinking the ISK in the BPOs anyway. Now go on and rage.”
If that was the new normal, people would get used to it and it would be fun.
General feedback to the event:
I liked:
- no warp gates equals great opportunities for PVP content
- accelerators, helps newer players close the gap a bit and get themselves into ships faster
- BC/BS for everyone. It’s like telling us: don’t worry about a ship, here you have one, now fit it in some funny way and fight until it explodes. Really appreciated
- the spawns so close to the structure, seems like a good solution for gateless sites (as warp disrupting NPCs might be a bit too strong here), in order find a balance between being able to escape, running the sites efficiently and being able to catch people running them
- different sites for different areas of space, higher risk, higher reward, that’s cool
I didn’t like sooo much:
- actually only the thing with the rules changing during the event and the loot retrospectively becoming a bit worthless (economically speaking)
what I’d like to see:
- it could be fun to have a bit of development of events during the event, like Rogue Drones intensifying their efforts, players having to push back harder (harder sites, slightly better rewards), some form of escalation and some news about that
Not really. For every “sad” person on the market there is equally a “happy” one who was on the other side of the trade before the market moved. This isn’t a people are “sad” situation but rather a people got “outplayed” or at least made poor choice speculating that the value of an uncertain asset would increase with hopes to make some easy ISK. Mocking someone because they are sad is uncouth; mocking a sore loser is the sacred duty of an Eve player.
No one likes speculators, getting rich off the backs of the poor, hardworking folk of New Eden. Seeing some of them get their comeuppance for once is one of the feel-good stories of the year.
They do?
CCP has never reimbursed players for a market swing as far as I am aware. The market is player-driven anyway so they basically can’t do anything. The certainly won’t hand out ISK or whatever you are dreaming of to compensate you for losses you took holding an asset that the other players don’t want anymore.
No it didn’t. Even if you thought the drone sites were going to stop when the Arms Race ended, CCP announced far and wide accelerators and the other festive items would be available starting today, with the Yoiul Event. Anyone who was paying attention expected more accelerators would be flooding the market today, so I have very little sympathy for the speculators who thought the end of the Arms Race was going to be a large payday for them if they hoarded the drops. They made a play based on the incomplete information at hand (some of it clearly saying more accelerators were coming), it turned out to be the wrong one, and now they are crying over their losses.
Play with fire like the market, and sometimes you are going to get burned. If you get burned so badly you feel the need to fill the forums with your sadness and demands for compensation, then you should probably look into implementing some risk management strategies and stop trading what you can’t afford to lose.
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Unfortunately, speculation on a market with insufficient information and incorrect assumptions is not something we will reimburse. Sorry.
The Agency cannot and never has controlled the distribution of sites. The assumption that the Event controls the distribution of sites is incorrect. We can remove sites from the game in conjunction with the Event and that is a separate deployment that must occur. This is why most events end on Tuesdays because that’s the first time we get normally scheduled patches.
We thought about having the Rogue Swarm sites use the Agency logo similar to the Event cards. In that case, it would absolutely suggest that the Event controls the site distribution. We specifically did not do this because that would have been “the game lying to you”. I agree however, that this still led to avoidable frustration with just a bit more communication on our part.
On a slightly related note, we have a plan for the Agency to control distributions and it’s something that I’ve been trying to push for a while. It’s been something that’s getting a lot more discussion than normal because it requires a significant change to a huge portion of our content control systems. We’ll go through a preliminary design at the end of January (it’s been scheduled) and we’ll see about implementation after that.
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Now the Youl version of the same, I’m tired of grinding Rogue Sites, it has run its course … please be more creative next time. Maybe it makes sense to focus all your energy on public tools, so we can help you with designing new events.
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Ripard Teg has written eloquently on this situation for years: EVE PvE is bad or simplistic and grindy BUT players will put up with it, if the rewards are interesting.
(Resource Wars are falling down mostly on the rewards, the actual gameplay is new and addresses a player segment looking for a faster pace.)
It also depends on your perspective: hunters want event sites to take a significant amount of time so they have the longest possible chance to “create player interaction.”
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I’m not talking against the site’s design, they are very good, but they get old after a couple of weeks.
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I’m totally with you, as a site-consumer, I also get tired of the endless repetition. But that also works for the hunters, who may have an increasing chance of finding someone in a site who’s paying even less attention by now. Sometimes, I just throw drones out and walk away to do something vastly more interesting… like, anything. Oh! site’s done 
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