[December] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes

[Querns]

@gonoree

“+56% fuel use by Black Ops Battleships”

NO.

They already use too much for thier cargo hold capacity.

Far be it for you to have a blockade runner tender or two.

[GoldSnake]

@Arrendis

@GoldSnake

Look at what happens every time you nerf rorquals, goons get stronger while every other region declines.

To be fair, that’s going to happen with just about any mechanical change: the larger, more organized groups will figure out how to adapt faster, and run through the trial-and-error-and-error-and-error process of min-maxing faster.

oh I’m under no illusion of that, having seen it work first hand on multiple occasions.

[Arrendis]

@CCP_Lebowski

I can attest to the amount of confusion surrounding Moon Mining in Wormholes and High sec after Lifeblood, lots of people were very mad!

Well that’s just silly. I mean, you guys all but said ‘NOT AT FIRST BUT WE’RE LOOKING AT IT’ before and after every sentence during that part of the presentation.

[blazigen]

@Sakido_Cain

I am so grateful for these changes, as they make Delve even more secure, productive and valuable. Being that Goons sits on 2 racial ice types, you make life easier on us. The changes to the fatigue does nothing to stop us from blotting out the sun with caps, cause we just rotate out alts to keep jumping on everyone who comes in, and farm the topes for that locally.

If you are in a small alliance or corp, trying to eek out a living in null or lowsec, Goonswarm is always looking for active corps to join us. Find out what a true empire is like, don’t be a slave to someone else.

Keep it up Fozzie, you never disappoint us with how your changes always work to make our lives easier while making our enemies lives harder. The powerhouse that is Delve production shall only grow from this.

@CCP_Fozzie Maybe something to consider reading. Because it is really true

[Betrayer_of_Hope]

@Igace

Never lost a JF, but something like this should be possible right? Nomad | Sasha Darksand | Killmail | zKillboard (I don’t know this dude but surely the almighty CONCORD can take down a few bombers in a 0.7, no?)

While the topic of suiciding jump freighters might be relevant somewhere, That place isn’t this thread. I see little immediate correlation between jump fuel costs and a fleet of 50 destroyers out to ruin someones evening.

[Wibla]

@Arrendis

Well that’s just silly. I mean, you guys all but said ‘NOT AT FIRST BUT WE’RE LOOKING AT IT’ before and after every sentence during that part of the presentation.

A lot of people are bad at comprehending simple spoken words (in english or otherwise) and it seems overly simplistic to pander to the lowest common denominator just to postpone the screeching.

[gonoree]

Even with a fuel truck around they still eat a ton of it, not to mention most of the times it’s a problem finding someone that wants to bring one/can fly one on those ops.

[Ltd_SpacePig]

It’s about honesty and not about half-assed releases. You could just have said that this is the first step in an upcoming change to jump drive fuel consumptions instead of leaving it to look like you for ones where doing something to improve the overall quality of life for players while that was really never the real intent. You keep undermining yourselves in the eyes of the player base.

[Lord_Rahvin]

I don’t mind the extra cost for jumping carriers, fax’s, dreads, supers. Jumping around such a powerful force should cost money. But what is really going to hurt is the jump freighter costs.

Because of CCP’s ■■■■ mechanics, it is almost impossible to use a regular freighter to move anything in highsec via gates. If you have more than 1bil in your cargo hold. So I know many people have to jump straight from jita or amarr and cross all of empire. Often times being at least 2-3 midpoints. Before they even get to 0.0. If industrialists were able to (regular) freighter stuff near their lowsec system and then jump the stuff to 0.0. I would totally be cool with this change in regards to jump freighters. But since freighter ganking is such a cancerous and typical thing these days we can’t do that. So increase the JF’s fuel bonus to 20% at the very least to compensate for the amount of ridiculous jumps we have to do over empire, that we in theory shouldn’t have to do in the first place.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@gonoree

it’s a problem finding someone that wants to bring one/can fly one on those ops.

didn’t you know you have to have alts if you want to do anything practically

[Querns]

@gonoree

not to mention most of the times it’s a problem finding someone that wants to bring one/can fly one on those ops

This sounds like a social problem, not a game mechanics problem.

[CCP_Lebowski]

We appreciate the point on communication for sure, and have conceded above that that was our failing in this case. But the comment I was responding to wasn’t about that.

[Delta_Flux]

@CCP_Fozzie
Does this change impact black ops & titan bridges? As in are the mass -> isotope base usage being modified as well?

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

yes that formula pulls directly from the base usage of the ship with the bridge fit

[blazigen]

@CCP_Lebowski

We appreciate the point on communication for sure, and have conceded above that that was our failing in this case. But the comment I was responding to wasn’t about that.

@CCP_Lebowski that fact you concede that you where wrong does not fix the sentiment. The fact that after this whole year of bad communication between ccp and the playerbase and it still happens means something is going terribly wrong within CCP.

[Lord_Kaho]

And another… Dont know.

Need to post it again:

CCP ■■■■■■ up the Citadel thing. Everey “Powerblock” Spams Citadells everywhere.
So no one want to go in a grinding War… Nullsec = Nerfed

Caps? Nerfed, Fuel? more Expensiv…

So Attackers get the next hit. You want SOV?
The Defenders can drop Capitals on your head.
But moving Caps as Attack force get more expensive…

If you cant fix the Capital TIDI Fight Problem, dont nerf Caps.
Just remove them. A World without Caps… Would be more Awesome then switching a PVP Game to a PVE Game.

Dont know what CCPs goal is at the moment…

[John_Selth]

@CCP_Fozzie

Over long timescales we would like to make major changes to the way jump fatigue works, as the system hits its mechanical goals but doesn’t create a good user experience.

Where were you like three years ago when everyone told you this?

[Keno_Skir]

@CCP_Fozzie

Increase the economic friction associated with capital ship deployments and jump freighter hauling

YESSSSS! Good move CCPeoples. +1

@Lord_Kaho

So Attackers get the next hit. You want SOV?

The Defenders can drop Capitals on your head.

But moving Caps as Attack force get more expensive…

This is normal, defender should have the advantage of easier logistics since they are defending their patch and the aggressor has to come to them. Pretty standard in the majority of real combat tbh.

[Mega_Shimaya]

@CCP_Fozzie

Over long timescales we would like to make major changes to the way jump fatigue works, as the system hits its mechanical goals but doesn’t create a good user experience

Then just remove it!

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@Lord_Kaho

If you cant fix the Capital TIDI Fight Problem, dont nerf Caps.

capitals are used outside of large fleets you know? and CCP have stated they are more concerned in the health of the small/med fights rather than the extremely large ones