[March] Jump Fatigue Changes

(CCP Fozzie) #1

Hi folks! This will be the discussion thread for the proposed jump fatigue changes for the March release that have been announced in the recent dev blog.

To recap what we discussed in the blog, the current plan for these changes is to reduce the cap on jump fatigue (blue timer) accumulation from its current 4 days to 5 hours. Since jump activation cooldown (orange timer) is 1/10 of jump fatigue this also effectively caps new jump activation cooldowns at 30 minutes.

After this change the jump reactivation cooldowns for max-length carrier jumps made in the fastest possible succession would be 7 minutes, then 7 minutes again, then just under 30 minutes for subsequent jumps. Waiting out the fatigue timer would still work for reducing the activation cooldowns, but for most long distance travel jumping as quickly as possible and sitting at the new lower cap would become the optimal strategy.

The goal of these changes is to reduce some of the poor player experience around fatigue while also preserving at least part of the original goals of the Phoebe jump changes in allowing more freedom from fast traveling hotdrop fleets.

We do not expect this to be the last change we make to jump mechanics and jump fatigue. No feature in a game like EVE is ever “done” and we’ll continue coming back to it with more iterations when observations from this change are available and internal schedules allow.

Alongside these changes we are also planning a few smaller tweaks surrounding the jump system, including making the capital navigation window accessible through the right click menu on a jump-capable ship and adding a fatigue reduction bonus to shuttles and pods for bridging. More details about these smaller changes will be available in the test server feedback threads as they hit SISI.

Please use this thread for feedback on these changes, and thanks for reading!

(CCP Fozzie) #2

Reserved for FAQ

(Lustig Allas-Rui) #3

How does this address the issue that Rorquals sit in space and can’t be touched? You cant reach them if they are more than 1J from an NPC station, you cant extract, and you cant travel long distances (30min waiting between jumps is too much). Jump fatigue stops any usage of capitals.

(Querns) #4

Has there been any talk of trimming 10 minutes from the blue timer? Right now, if you’re under 10 minutes of blue mushroom, it acts as if you had no blue mushroom at all. This is a thing that I am continually having to explain to new capital pilots, and it’s somewhat counter-intuitive.

(Friendly Fyre) #5

The max fatigue you can get is 30 minutes? Doesn’t that mean this mechanic is pretty much useless now? As much as I agree that someting had to change to the unlimited jumping of capitals - and as much as I agree that the fatigue could be a bit too much - I do not think this change is making much sense.

And by 30 minutes I mean the actual real time that you are not able to jump. The blue timer can then almost be disregarded as if its inexistent.

(Karn Bheskagor) #6

So much yes. Thanks for this CCP!

(Suitonia) #7

It still limits capital projection quite meaningfully, 30 minute per jump is still a long time. The server has also come a long way since the Dominion-ERA and 200 vs 200 man fights with capitals between 2 mid sized alliances which would normally prompt 10% TIDI and allow bad guys™ to cyno there from 6+ midpoints away, now are stable and usually run flawlessly. Jump range is also smaller, and Aegis Sov also makes it harder to project further.

(Friendly Fyre) #8

I disagree. You are speaking of the maximum timer here - something which can quite possibly be abused into the extreme. Almost all of EVE could join in the fight. By the time they get there they would be fatigued for the 30 minutes sure - but they’d be there to blob along with all the others. Same as before.

(Jay Amazingness) #9

Finally a good change from CCP, lets hope you keep it going.

(Killah Bee) #10

Yes good changes.

(Nolak Ataru) #11

Just to be sure, this will get reverted when we start using this to kill PL supers, right?

(Blacksmoke16) #12

Would jump freighters still retain their reduction to fatigue accumulation?

(Ivory Harcourt) #13

In which world something like that would ever happen?

(Nolak Ataru) #14

Garage-door cynos, 6-scram invulnerable tackle Rorquals, Teleporter Rooms, POS bowling…

There’s literally years of CCP either hurriedly declaring something an exploit or changing how something works as soon as someone starts using it against Pandemic Legion. It’s not like people call them “CCPL” for a reason…

(Ivory Harcourt) #15

Reduced too much… please make the maximum orange timer at least 1hr if not more. Power projection is a real thing, this way you can get to the other side of the galaxy in like what, 3-4 hours, still enough for a tidi fight.

(EVIL SYNNs) #16

Moving from South to the North in 1 day - what can go wrong with that?

Take the recent Keepstar saving, this required days of maneuvering and it ended in a lag fest tastic. So the answer? Is to allow more people to join up in capitals!

Are we really not expecting every man and their dog to appear, now in carriers and faxs, supers and tians to the next “publicity” attack!

And it will be back to “I’m in a cruiser, attacking a cruiser”… CYNO UP… cause the caps will just jump away and repeat just 10 minutes later (actual time estimated).

This sounds like a blobby CSM wanting to be part of the fight - no matter where the fight will be.

It has gone from impossible to move across Eden in less than a week, to the present couple of days, to the proposed day!

Really what could make anyone think this is a good idea?

(Capqu) #17

Seems too extreme to me, and only really benefits big blocs that want to have influence far from where they live.

As someone who attacks a large entity with a much smaller one, far from their staging on the edge of their influence - currently they can guaranteed save anything once a day and then not be able to do it for a while, so we had a chance to compete on the ancillary timers which they had to let slide in favour of the big one.

With this change, the large entity can double bridge for every threat and not worry too much about how it impacts timers they have later in the same day.

Although it might seem nice for casual players not having to worry about big numbers and screwing themselves, this affects the ability of anyone not part of the big blob to attack that blob at the fringes, which the game doesn’t really need.

Maybe a less extreme reduction would be warranted so that the mythical new-player can’t totally screw themselves, but this seems over the top in favour of already established megablobs defending their fringes.

(Lazarus Telraven) #18

I feel like these changes are a little heavy handed, but a change was needed.

Is it possible to tweak certain jump fatigue values? I feel like a reduction specific to jump bridges POS Modules would be much healthier for the game so that can’t use titans to move across/control many regions without investing into the space. It also allows counter play for the attackers to be able to incapacitate the JB mod.

(Betrayer of Hope) #19

30 minutes is about as long as i need to move, scout, plan, and set my cyno in the next destination system when i’m running solo. And in large fleets (which is the whole purpose of this mechanic being introduced in the first place) i see it only slightly delaying capital movement, as long as the fight isn’t on the other end of the map. I see this change being around only long enough for us to abuse it against PL before CCP, yet again, changes their mind and decides to make further changes.

I’d say either bring back the old jump ranges, and figure out a balanced jump fatigue formula to delay quick movement across long ranges, or keep the ranges where they are now and remove this silly mess of a mechanic altogether. Its clear this mechanic has been a bad idea and poorly implemented from the start.

(Eli Pacificator) #20

Holy mother of god these changes are nonstop amazing. good change after good change after good change! Please keep us with this!