[December] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes

(CCP Fozzie) #1

This post has been updated since originally posted to include additional changes to isotope volumes and JF fuel bays.

Hello everyone. We have a series of changes planned for our December release to discuss today. These changes follow up on the reductions in isotope volume and moon material volume released in Lifeblood last month.

Combined these changes work towards the following goals:

  • Increase the economic friction associated with capital ship deployments and jump freighter hauling
  • Stimulate the ice product markets which would otherwise suffer from lower starbase usage
  • Improve the balance of ice product consumption (increased isotope and liquid ozone consumption relative to heavy water consumption)
  • Easier trade of high value reacted intermediate materials for T2 production (with the goal of nullsec regions being largely self-sufficient by volume but encouraging trade of lower-volume goods)
  • Somewhat reducing the pain that can be caused by heavy jump drive usage and high stacked jump fatigue values

To organize the feedback I’ll split the changes into three related forum threads:

This will serve as the discussion thread for the planned increases in jump drive fuel consumption and reduction in the maximum jump fatigue cap.

The changes to jump drives we have planned for December are:

  • +56% fuel use by Black Ops Battleships
  • +100% fuel use by other ship-based jump drives
  • Reduction of the maximum jump fatigue cap by 20%
  • New: Further reduction in isotope volume by 40% (to 0.03m3)
  • New: +20% increase in jump freighter fuel bay volumes

:Edit: The additional changes here have been added since encouraging people to refuel more often is not a primary goal of these changes so we are fine with preserving the post-Lifeblood jumps/fuelbay for JFs and keeping most of that benefit for other capitals as well. Additional reductions in isotope volume actually help with continued progress towards the overall nullsec trade goals of trade in lower volume items and local production of higher volume items.

The end result combined with the isotope volume reduction last month is that most jump-capable ships will be able to jump 66% farther a fuel bay as they could pre-Lifeblood, Jump Freighters will be able to jump 100% farther on a fuel bay as they could pre-Lifeblood (the same distance as current post-Lifeblood TQ) and Black Ops will be able to jump ~114% father than pre-Lifeblood (~7% father than current TQ)

Overall costs for jump movement will increase, with that value being shifted to ice miners across all areas of space.

Over long timescales we would like to make major changes to the way jump fatigue works, as the system hits its mechanical goals but doesn’t create a good user experience. However in the meantime we are planning an intermediate step of reducing the cap on jump fatigue by 20%. This means that the maximum blue timer will be 4 days and the maximum red timer will be 9.6 hours.

These changes are now on Sisi for you to try out, so I encourage everyone to take a look and let us know what you think.

[December] Changes to fuel block manufacturing inputs
[December] Reduction in T2 intermediate material volume
:black_heart: :heart: :yellow_heart: I Like Thread (RIP EVE) :black_heart: :heart: :yellow_heart:
(erg cz) #2

More ISK sink :wink:

(0pec) #3

Another fantastic change related to jump drives from our favorite CCP Fozzie. Thank you CCP!

(CCP Fozzie) #4

Jump drives aren’t actually an isk sink, although they are a material sink (for ice products).

(Ersio Heleneto) #5

Half the volume of topes (a change which everybody liked) and then double the usage. Why does ccp hate jump drives so much ?

(GoldSnake) #6

Why is it you dislike the small groups so much fozzie? I thought you wanted to promote their prosperity. Every nerf you’ve been introducing is only forcing them to be absorbed into the larger groups. Look at what happens every time you nerf rorquals, goons get stronger while every other region declines. Stop the madness.

(Zesty Memes) #7

p-p-p-po-power projection

(Luna TheMoonrider) #8

Serious question:

Why nerfing Caps every patch. And nerfing them after “bufing” them!

I mean, the halve of the tops volume was really cool, and JF pilotes loved that.
And now, one month after everyone was happy about it, boom, nerf bat. (and JF pilotes hate that)

The maximum jump fatigue reduction is not bad, but feel like a damage control thing more than a real change.

You say:

Stimulate the ice product markets which would otherwise suffer from lower starbase usage
Improve the balance of ice product consumption (increased isotope and liquid ozone consumption relative to heavy water consumption)

Why not improve the need for citadel?
Why not improve the need for reaction?

It really feel like the caps need to handle everything…

Feels bad…

(Mema McDank) #9

Does it affect portals?

(Venetian Tar) #10

Classic CCP.

(Michael Oskold) #11

dont believe so.

(theRaptor) #12

Exactly. I’m in a giant nullsec group but I have sympathy for smaller groups that don’t have the logistics abilities that big groups do. Trying to live anywhere more than a handful of mids from Jita just got even more costly for no reason.

And god forbid people actually move caps long range to have some meaningful fights. Nope everyone has to stay in their own region and skirmish with the neighbours in subcaps.

(Madison Madeveda) #13

Is there any data on how many people regularily hit max jump fatigue, at all or more than once/year?

(Zetadelta333) #14

how about you get rid of racial topes which is a relic of the pos farm era, Citadels can use any fuel, reactions require all 4. Aside from racial cap isotope usage there is no point to dividing it into 4 subclasses. Its pointless and still locks regions to not being able to be self sustainable as you need all types of topes for pretty much everything and can only farm one type in your home region. This is not the solution to the stagnant ice problem following pos’s demise. This is making logistics harder, as if you didnt already, i have to take hours out of my day to do logistics that i used to be able to do in about 20 minutes, and now your charging me double to do this.

(John A-Clark) #15

No No No No No No No No No.

(CrazzyElk) #16

Love the change! Making logistics more expensive makes the game more interesting and less blobby.

I would have increased the fuel costs on titans and supers more but you cant get everything… :slight_smile:

(Zesty Memes) #17

maximum blue timer will be 4 days

that’s so amazingly useless
like holy f++k

(John A-Clark) #18

its ok tho because it costs more to jump now so who the â– â– â– â–  cares about fatigue right.

(Michael Oskold) #19

this is a pretty spicy change considering whats happened in the last 2 months around this game. I dunno man. Id like to see fatigue reduced even more than this. Like 2-4 hour max blue but up the orange timer. i get that we dont want people teleporting around but slows are dead and most people wont field supers unless MASS APOSTLE. i think re looking at fatigue after all the changes that have occured since then is kinda huge.

just feels like a huge stick and very small nibble of a rancid carrot tbh.

still believe in u tho fozzie. make drakes great again. ))

(theRaptor) #20

I hope this is sarcasm as this change does the opposite. It will have minimal impact on large groups with a ton of JFs, but will heavily impact small groups with only a handful of JFs.

Goons, who are the ultimate blob, will feel nearly zero impact from JF nerfs as they can probably actually manage local production for nearly everything at below Jita costs.