Democratic Deficit in the Minmatar Republic


(Kam Spalko) #21

alright I admit it, I slept through all my civic’s education classes at Republic University

Though one thing that did stand out was the electoral process which I do have some respect for, there is something to be said for the ‘masses’ expressing their collective voice through a universal vote. I also really like the idea of term limits, and citizen initiated referendum’s, some features that would foster greater inclusiveness and participation by the ordinary Minmatar, instead of all decisions being left to the tribal oligarchy and the other power tripping sociopaths within the establishment…


(Arrendis) #22

Then bring it up to your clan’s leadership and see if they will suggest the matter to Chief Acassa Midular. I suspect, having suffered for so long under the anarchic, paralyzing, internecine squabbling that is ‘democracy’, they may laugh at you… but the Clans and the Chiefs are how things get done among the Tribes.


(Kam Spalko) #23

I’m part of Sebiestor Tribe so that would be Acassa Midular (OOC: though in game it still says that Karin Midular is the current CEO of Sebiestor tribe :confused:)

I’m not calling for a return to the old system of parliamentary democracy, I may be idealistic, but in this galaxy there needs to be considerable pragmatism for what works. Though the voices of the many billions stuck planet bound, and the voices of the migrant itinerant workers who labour in the Raitaru complexes and in the asteroid belt’s deserve some mechanism of having their collective voice heard, even in non-binding votes, to better inform the tribal leadership and allow for mass participation of all Minmatar no matter their tribal affiliations.

Not everything about democracy is a failure, though it is deeply flawed and subject to being hijacked by plutocrats and the cluster’s super elite class…

Those that say that the ‘masses’ are too dumb to know whats good for them and so all power should be taken from them, well I disagree with that, and if the masses are really like that, then it’s only because society has shaped them that way, as an anonymous Caldari once told me “you are a product of your environment after all”


(Aldrith Shutaq) #24

Nice to see a Matari that sees Shakor for what he truly is: an opportunistic warmonger usurper.


(James Syagrius) #25

The former republic is a sovereign power and as such must find its own way.

But as an interested outside observer, the coup that removed Midular from power was a travesty.

The current oligarchy is little more than a neptocracy, while it may be ‘culturally appropriate’, I believe history will record it as a step backward for the progress of an otherwise great people.


(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #26

The problem with democracy is that nothing ever gets done, because by nature it is designed to be legislatively divisive and institutionally dysfunctional in the belief that with a divisive and dysfunctional government it protects the individual freedoms of citizens. That’s all well and good, if culturally, that is what is desired, but looking at the Republic experiment with democracy it was divisive and dysfunctional because Matari culture was not suited to it.

Clan and Tribal loyalties intertwined with political parties seemed to create an environment where legislatively rules were liable to be changed as quickly as different ruling coalitions were formed. Which in part likely contributed to the Republic’s decades of slow economic progress, because businesses tend to prefer to invest in places where laws are not subject to volatility in order to implement long term planning.


(Arrendis) #27

A neptocracy… hah. That’s funny. What makes you think the Chiefdoms in any of the Tribes are hereditary? Each Tribe has its own way of determining its Chief. Tell me, what makes ‘Your representative in the government is based on your Tribe’ any worse than ‘Your representative in the government is based on where you live’?

Any of the Tribes can, dependent on their internal politics and structure, remove a Chief and replace them. The position is not one of absolute power within a Tribe, not even among the Starkmanir. If someone holds a position of authority to make laws only because those they govern choose to allow them to continue to hold that position, what’s the problem?

Because to me, that sounds more like a legislative body of representatives of the populace than it does some form of authoritarian tyranny. How many representatives do there have to be before it stops being an Oligarchy? Ten? Twenty? Thirty? Is an Oligarchy inherently bad in the first place? The more people there are debating an issue, the greater the odds of inaction and gridlock. The larger the deliberative body, the more people there are to be corrupted by outside interests.


(Elmund Egivand) #28

Look, again, if they have any issues whatsoever about anything, they can always bring it up to their Clan heads or someone further up the chain.

Though in the case of Raitaru complexes, it is very likely that the concerned parties are a member of a Circle of some form or description. Circles and equivalents (e.g. a Minmatar-run Corporation staffed entirely by Minmatar of various Tribes) have equal voice with Clans, though typically their concerns will, by default, be considered a Republic concern rather than a Tribal one. In that case, bring it up in the next community meeting and convince your Circle head or departmental head to raise the concern to the relevant Republic bodies (who are the executor arm of the Tribal Assembly), or raise it yourself and they will, depending on distance from the core worlds, send an executor agent over to evaluate the situation and report back to the relevant parties. If it’s serious enough, that’s going straight to the Assembly.

Again, just send the bloody mail.

It’s not about ‘masses’ being too dumb to know what’s good for them and more ‘what’s good for one Tribe or community group isn’t necessarily good for the other Tribe or community group’. Since the Parliament of old isn’t aligned to the needs of the Tribe (and the Parliament typically enacting policies that will affect all Tribes with little to no wriggle room), it had to go and the political power taken away from the various political parties and returned back to whom it rightfully belongs to: the Clan and the Tribe.

I say the current system is much better. The Clans have the power to decide what’s good for them. The Tribes take care of the Clans and help smooth out any kind of issues between the Clans. The Republic takes care of the Tribes and help grease relations between the Tribes. There is more autonomy for the Clans and Tribes now. Everything is more grassroot.

A significant improvement over the Parliament system where everything is decided by the majority, which may or may not be good for the individual Tribes and Clans. No, we don’t care about the unique challenges presented to your Clan, you are required to follow what, we, the majority, say you should follow!

I’m not going to miss that one.


(Arrendis) #29

There’s ways around that problem, but it winds up creating incredibly convoluted laws where there’s exceptions and examptions, cutouts and ‘special case’ rules… Faugh! What works in Pator or Eystur can’t always be done in Skarkon, and there’s no need for a ridiculously complex set of over-engineered laws. So…

Me neither.


(Jason Galente) #30

Outsider? I’m half Sebiestor.

However I’m not so tribalistic as to be blind to the chaos that the Chief of the Sebiestor caused. It’s a statement of fact.

That very tribalism of yours is exactly why she was an unsuitable leader.


(Jason Galente) #31

I find the Amarr’s universal hatred of Shakor and general better taste for Midular a reinforcement of my earlier point.


(Deitra Vess) #32

Because after all, they have our best interests in mind right?


(Elmund Egivand) #33

I wouldn’t blame it on the late Midular Karin.

The real problem is the Parliament. No matter what she tried to do, the senators are there to block her. The tragedy here, I find, is that she put too much faith in the Parliamentary system despite her experiences with the senators constantly bickering with each other and interfering with whatever positive changes she was trying to enact.

For that, I will not hold anything against the late Midular Karin. She’s too idealistic, but that isn’t a sin.


(Jason Galente) #34

“She’s too idealistic, but that isn’t a sin.”

It is when you have the Republic’s history and risks.


(Arrendis) #35

You weren’t the only one offering commentary on her, goofus.


(Elmund Egivand) #36

Mistakes aren’t synonymous with sins, you know.


(Diana Kim) #37

Well, it’s not really my business how democratic or not democratic management is in the Republic.

But since they have a deficit of the Democracy there, I can only congratulate them with it.

I can just hope they will grow up already someday and shake off all these archaic democratic elements, will step into the bright future of the progress without degenerating themselves by freedoms and democracies. Then there will be no reason to wage wars, and maybe if that happens we could even become allies someday.


(Teinyhr) #38

Absolute disaster was how she was treated by many of her kin. Instead of trusting her wisdom she was doubted at every turn and anything she tried was blocked by a wall of bureucracy, not to mention certain capsuleer groups that incited violence against her and supported terrorist movements inside the Republic at the time.

At this point I consider Shakor nothing else but a puppet for the Elders, nothing more, nothing less. Elders saved the Republic through him.

People have been beaten to a bloody pulp for less slander.


(Jason Galente) #39

You’re welcome to try, sweetheart.


(Teinyhr) #40

Why must you people take everything as a personal challenge?

I’m not going to beat you up personally, it was more of a reminder that in certain company you might get your nosehairs pulled out one by one for far less inflammatory remarks.