Ladies and gentlemen, as Kunta Keinte, the proud representative of the Minmatar people, I stand before you today to call for a vote of no confidence against Ambassador Keitan Yun. As we all know, the Minmatar Republic is a proud and noble nation, born from the ashes of oppression and enslavement. Our people have fought long and hard to secure our freedom, and we will not allow that freedom to be jeopardized by a weak and ineffective ambassador.
It is clear that Ambassador Yun has failed to sway the assembly, and his inability to do so has put the entire Minmatar Republic at risk. We cannot afford to have a representative who is unable to effectively communicate our needs and secure our interests.
Furthermore, there are whispers of conspiracies within our own government, plots to weaken our resolve and strip us of our hard-won freedoms. It is my belief that Ambassador Yun may be complicit in these sinister machinations, and that he may be working against us rather than for us. We need someone who can effectively advocate for our interests and push for the changes that our Republic needs.
Therefore, I implore you all to join me in calling for a vote of no confidence against Ambassador Keitan Yun. We cannot afford to have someone so weak and potentially dangerous representing our proud nation. We need a leader who is not afraid to speak truth to power and fight for our rights. Someone who will stand up to the oppressors and demand justice for all Minmatar.
Let us take action now, before it is too late, and ensure that our future remains bright and free. Thank you.
You know Ambassadors are appointed, not elected, right? You just need the Tribal Council or Sanmatar to recall him.
That said, I donât think Yunâs advocacy has been at all ineffectual. You say he failed to sway the Assembly. The Gallente say the allegations must be investigated. The Caldari say they will be investigating, from their side.
How, exactly, is both of the other empires saying there must be investigation a failure to convince them? They were never going to simply accept the evidence presented without conducting their own investigations. Thatâs not how international diplomacy works. Nobody trusts anyone else, so of course theyâd need to verify it all themselves.
This is like insisting that Dark Shines is an ineffective leader because the Black Hand is conducting their own investigation into a matter.
While it is true that the Gallente and Caldari have expressed the need for investigation, I believe that Yun could have done more to advocate for the interests of the Minmatar Republic in this matter. The fact that other empires are investigating the allegations does not absolve Yun of his responsibility to represent the interests of his people and to push for a swift and fair resolution. While I understand that Yunâs advocacy has garnered some attention from the Gallente and Caldari, the fact remains that he was not successful in persuading the Assembly to take action.
Yunâs approach will actually hurt our cause. By presenting the evidence in such a confrontational manner, he may have turned potential allies against us. He laid our cards out for everyone to see.
Diplomacy is a delicate dance, and Yunâs tactics may have disrupted the balance.
As for the comparison to Dark Shines, I donât think itâs a fair one. Dark Shines has proven himself to be an effective leader time and time again (the great fi.re wars part i, ii). Yun, on the other hand, has not been able to achieve the desired outcome.
Regardless of some minor claims of spying which are, let us be honest, rather trivial non-issues, I think we should all stand in remembrance and thanks to the thousands, if not millions of Amarr Navy EDENCOM personnel who have given their lives fighting us triglavian and kybernaut forces in an attempt to destroy observatories in Pochven. Ask yourself, have you ever seen a Nagalfar dreadnaught here?
While Minmatar forces hug the wormholes to empire space ready to run home to mommy at any hint of danger, brave Amarrians take the battle straight to us evil system-stealing villains like the chads they are.
I have no time for sentimentalities or emotional outbursts. Itâs a waste of energy and it clouds judgment. The only thing that matters is achieving our objectives, and we must use any means necessary to accomplish them. Whether itâs sacrificing a few pawns on the chessboard or betraying those who trust us, itâs all part of the game.
You may think you have loyalty and honor, but those are just illusions that you use to make yourself feel better. In the end, they will only hold you back and make you weak. So donât waste my time with your sentimental nonsense. If you have something useful to share, then speak up. Otherwise, get out of my way and let me do what needs to be done.
So your complaint is that Yunâs advocacy was not successful in moving to action a body where any of the 4 empires can unilaterally veto action?
How, exactly would you propose he should have swayed the Amarr into not vetoing action?
As for thisâŚ
You might be right. After all, Keitan Yunâs been an effective and respected advocate for the Republicâs interest to the CONCORD Assembly for fifteen years now, having started in that position before Shines even joined Vanishing Point.
Heâs proven himself time and again, in service to both the Midular administration and Shakorâs regime.
As for âthe great fi.re warsâ⌠please. They were nothing of the sort. The first one was Mittens deciding Fi.Re needed to be punished for allowing Horde to stage in their space to attack the Imperium, and Shines took Init to go have fun until the entire Imperium leadership group kind of threw up their hands and realized they had no actual plan for victory, and not even a coherent idea of just what âvictoryâ would look like. It was just a personal pissing match with Konstantin.
And the second was just beating the crap out of them after weâd burned down all their crap in the months prior. There was what, maybe 30 hours between the Imperium going home and Shines deciding it was time to go right back out after the same people? Only this time, theyâd pissed off Horde, too, so their âfriendsâ were just as hell-bent on eviction as Init.
Make no mistake: Horde keeps supporting Fi.Re instead, Shines is just spinning his wheels for 6 more months after spinning them for 6 months the first time, all with no clear set of victory conditions to achieve.
I like Shines. Heâs a decent guy. I mean, he ainât Sister Bliss, but heâs a decent guy. But youâre right⌠there really isnât any comparison between Yun and an alliance leader whoâs been in the job for under 2 years.
I must say that I find your post quite amusing. It seems you have mistaken me for Keitan Yun, as I am not a skilled diplomat. I have however assembled a small treatise in response:
There is no single solution to swaying the Amarr or any of the other empires to take a certain action. However, it is possible to make a case using evidence and reasoning that would be compelling enough to convince them to take action. There may be other ways to address the issue beyond simply convincing the Amarr to not veto action. Diplomatic negotiations and behind-the-scenes efforts can often lead to progress, even if it is not immediately visible to the public eye.
Yun could have worked to build relationships and coalitions with key individuals or factions within the governing body to increase his chances of success. He could have also focused on gaining public support for his cause, which may have put pressure on the governing body to take action.
Itâs not about proposing how Yun should have swayed the Amarr into not vetoing action. Itâs about evaluating the effectiveness of his advocacy and whether he was able to achieve his intended goals. Itâs understandable that the political process within the CONCORD Assembly can be complex and difficult to navigate, but if Yunâs advocacy failed to achieve any tangible results, then it can be seen as a missed opportunity or a lack of effectiveness.
Furthermore, itâs not just about swaying the Amarr, but also about building a coalition and consensus among the other member states of the Assembly to support his cause. If Yun was unable to do so, then it raises questions about his ability to effectively advocate for the interests of the Matari people and achieve meaningful change.
Itâs interesting that you bring up Keitan Yunâs past accomplishments, but I fail to see how that justifies his recent failures. As for the âgreat fi.re wars,â it seems like youâre downplaying the significant impact those conflicts had on New Eden. And while Dark Shines has already made a significant impact on the direction and success of The Initiative.
Ultimately, I think itâs important to evaluate leaders based on their current performance and the effectiveness of their advocacy. While Keitan Yun may have a successful track record, his recent failure to sway the Assembly into taking action is concerning. Meanwhile, Dark Shines continues to make progress and impact in the ongoing conflicts in New Eden.
No, Iâm saying that if you wanna complain, great, but offer solutions. For example, once again:
What exactly do you think anyone could do to motivate the Amarr to censure the Amarr? Ainât gonna happen. There are no âkey individuals or factionsâ within the CONCORD Assembly that can prevent any one of the Yulai Powers from simply saying âNo, this topic is over.â Thatâs been one of the large reasons CONCORD doesnât get anything done unless all 4 agree. Ever.
There is no âmeaningful changeâ that will ever come through CONCORD. CONCORD exists specifically to maintain the balance of power and the status quo. That is its mission.
There is also no âbuilding a coalitionâ within the Assembly. There is only a balance of power. There is the Fed/Republic bloc, and the Empire/State bloc. The State will never align with the interests of the Fed, just as we will never align with the interests of the Empire. There is no âcoalition-buildingâ that is possible, because the lines are already drawn.
Thus, when you attempt to âevaluate the effectiveness of his advocacy and whether or not he was able to achieve his intended goalsâ, you need to understand whatâs possible⌠since, you know, you wonât actually get a copy of what his intended goals were, so youâre left with speculation.
In this case, whatâs possible is forcing both the Federationâand, more importantly, the Stateâto pay attention and look into the matter. Which he achieved.
They had no significant impact on New Eden. None. The 14-month war that came before them had no signficiant impact on New Eden, either. No matter how much we like to tell ourselves that nullsec is driving the events of New Eden, let me give you some insight earned over 7 years in the Directorate of Goonswarm, and many long, long discussions featuring alcohol with people like Wibla, Carneros, 3 successive heads of the Corps Diplomatique, Le Martini, and Bliss:
It donât mean nuthinâ, except to us. The last war that had any real impact at all was the Great War, over 15 years ago, and even that was⌠marginal, at best. All our forces, all our crews, our station crews, our planetary colonies, all of it, from every bloc of nullsec, all combined, isnât a trillion people. The Republic, smallest of the empires, could crush us all without a thought, if they wanted.
If there is a real war between the Powers, it will make M2-XFE look like Merk and Brisc camping the Keberz gate in HED-GP for Saturday Night Swarm.
Once again: The Amarr are not going to take action against the Amarr. The Amarr in the CONCORD Assembly know full well that their only loyalty is to the Empire. And there is nothing in this cluster that will make them act against its interests.
Well, well, Arrendis, it seems like you have quite the opinion on the matter. But let me tell you, my friend, you seem to be missing the forest for the trees.
First of all, I never complained about anything, so no need to bring that up. Second, if you want solutions, I have them - how about we send the Amarr some delicious Matari cuisine to sweeten them up? Or perhaps we can bribe them with some fancy Minmatar jewelry? Just a couple of ideas off the top of my head. /s
It seems you have misunderstood my previous response. I am not Keitan Yun, but rather Kunta Keinte, a humble capsuleer who dabbles in treatises on occasion.
Now, on to your points. While it may be true that there are limitations to what can be accomplished within the CONCORD Assembly, it doesnât mean that we shouldnât try to effect change. As my Wayne Gretzkie once said, âYou miss 100% of the shots you donât takeâ -your mom. And while there may be no âmeaningful changeâ that can come through CONCORD, we can still push for progress and hold those in power accountable for their actions (or lack thereof).
As for coalition-building, I think youâre underestimating the power of diplomacy and behind-the-scenes efforts. Even the most entrenched enemies can find common ground and work towards a shared goal if the circumstances are right. And who knows, maybe the Amarr and the Matari will one day join hands and sing âKumbayaâ together. Okay, maybe not, but we can still dream, canât we? have you ever heard of the power of the âfriendâ-ship? If we all just got along, we could accomplish anything!
Now, letâs get to your other points. Sure, CONCORD might exist to maintain the status quo, but that doesnât mean we canât try to change it. Who knows, maybe one day weâll be able to convince the Yulai Powers to actually do something. In all seriousness if CONCORD shelters its members from sanctions or other actions just by veto and not by majority vote then by default IT is ineffective also. Who is to tell the empires to stop? no one? Then why have CONCORD in the first place!
And regarding the impact of the âgreat fi.re warsâ on New Eden, I must disagree with you there. The destruction and chaos that ensued had a profound effect on those involved, and itâs important not to downplay the human toll of these conflicts. Plus, letâs not forget about the economic impact on the region. Do you know how much it costs to rebuild a Molok? A lot, my friend. I mean, sure, they might not have affected the whole of New Eden, but they sure had an impact on my wallet. All those ships and modules lost? Thatâs a lot of ISK down the drain.
In conclusion, while there may be limitations to what we can accomplish in this universe, we should never give up on trying to make a difference. As my old buddy Bob Marley once said, âGet up, stand up, stand up for your rights!â (I may have taken some creative liberties with that quote, but you get the idea.)
as for your last point I mistakenly called the Assembly âAmarrâ I have corrected that.
You are expressing a negative opinion about the work Yunâs doing and demanding action be taken. Thatâs a complaint.
No, I have not. Rather, I am attempting to point out to you that your expectations are ridiculous, and that you have no idea what youâre talking about.
Indeed, and again: He succeeded. Within the realm of what is actually possible within CONCORD, Yun succeeded far beyond what any reasonable person might have expected, given that he got the Caldari looking suspiciously at the Amarr, upon whom they depend for deterrent against the Federation.
Having seen that sausage being made more than a few times, yes, it is possible in theory. But how much is possible depends on circumstances. The very matter being decried for Amarr spying is as far as âcoalition-buildingâ could get even in the face of external invasion. Context is key, and sitting there screaming âyou have failed this Republicâ because he only succeeded as well as possible, not as well as youâd like, is nonsense.
Be careful what you wish for. The Powers are currently trying to âdo somethingâ, and if they do, trillions of people will find they really donât like how fatal that something will be.
And yes, CONCORD is what has prevented all-out war for over a century, precisely because it maintains the status quo. It lets everyone have someplace to posture and pontificate, to yell as one another and point fingers⌠and then have nothing happen at all. Itâs a release valve on the pressure cooker of international politics.
Thatâs fine, youâre allowed to be wrong.
Iâm not. Not at all. M2-XFE saw roughly 10M people die, if you total average crew complements. A single Keepstar has ~165M people on board. At our height, we had roughly 11B people living and working on Keepstars from Pure Blind to Catch and Period Basis⌠PB to PB, if you will. The total of all of capsuleer nullsecâs structures, ships, planetary colonies, etc (remember: a Terrestrial planet is not necessarily a highly-populated world. Look at the night side of any of them out there, theyâre dark) probably totals up at about 50-80 billion people.
80 billion people, across all of nullsec, is not even 3% of the population of the smallest of the Yulai powers. But letâs put a pin in that.
Nothing. Rebuilding is repairing, and while I know you guys really overcharge on the jump gates, Iâve repaired plenty of capitals in your structures, and the service is free.
But I suspect you meant to build it from a BPC in the first place, and for that⌠the last time I talked to Jay about it, roughly 3x the cost for an Avatar. Now, I want you to imagine all of the titans, pirate and otherwise, that exist in nullsec. Put them all in one place.
That smallest Yulai Power, the Republic, would barely notice crushing them. Really, we think very much of ourselves because of our wealth and power compared to other independent capsuleers, but we are very much nothing compared to the power of the navies of New Eden. Wipe us all out, New Eden wonât care.
Firstly, the CONCORD Assembly is about as effective as a Caldari ship without a Graviton Reactor. CONCORD Assembly is ineffective and needs to be reformed. While the veto power may seem like a necessary check and balance, in practice it often leads to inaction and indecision. The member states are more interested in protecting their own interests than working together for the common good.
And donât even get me started on the Yulai Powers. Theyâre like a group of high-society Amarrians discussing the latest fashion trends - a lot of talk, but no real action. Their reluctance to take decisive action only emboldens those who seek to disrupt the peace and stability of the of Empire Space. Keitan Yunâs achievement is about as significant as a Vherokior hula hoop champion - no one cares. To the contrary I have personal knowledge of what the ambassador does in his free time. Did you know heâs been playing Quafe Pong with the other diplomats?!?
To keep Ambassador Yun in place is like telling a Deteis to stop tinkering with their ships - itâs just not going to happen. Recall the ambassador and let the Minmatar show the rest of New Eden how to really shake things up. Recalling Yun would send a strong message that the status quo is unacceptable and that real change is needed. Diplomatic channels can still remain open, but a more forceful stance is necessary to achieve meaningful progress.
As to your other arguments I find them irrelevant and cumulative.
I have to agree with what Arrendis has said on all major points. Ambassador Yun has done a good job with what heâs able to do within the framework of CONCORD. Iâm not sure how much you can realistically expect of him given the hardwired 2 vs 2 nature of the Assembly, as Arrendis has pointed out.
As for your assertion that your null âwarsâ and other machinations have even the least bit of effect on the lives of us empire dwellers, let me assure you that they most certainly donât. Iâve never even heard of most of the major players in null politics (with a couple of notable exceptions) nor do your âwarsâ have any effect on the daily lives of the average empire citizen. NONE.
LOL. By whom? Go on now, get at least 3 of the 5 (SoCTâs in there, too!) to agree to changing the Assembly so itâs not just a pressure valve. Iâd say weâll wait, but thereâs no point, since that is what the Assembly was expressly designed to do.
You seem to be laboring under the impression that CONCORD is there to solve problems. Itâs not. It was designed by the Empire and the Federation to let them glare daggers at one another, and let the State and Republic rant about their respective enemies, all without getting in the way of the business of keeping them at odds with one another, so the Expansionist Powers could continue to dominate the cluster.
âA lot of talk, but no real actionâ is the point, because if it comes down to âreal actionâ, thatâs gonna mean trillions of deaths. Trillions. Is your impatience really worth more than trillions of human lives?
In a system where the balance of power is so delicately maintained, it can never be a good thing to air grievances that cannot be addressed within the established framework. Exposing Amarrâs involvement only served to further strain an already tense situation and did nothing to actually address the underlying issues at hand.
Furthermore, it is important to consider the potential fallout from such actions. By publicly accusing the Amarr, Ambassador Yun may have endangered the lives of innocent civilians and sparked further conflict between the two nations.
It is recursive to think that airing a grievance would benefit Matari in a system where such a grievance will have no effect but to educate enemies of the Republic what we know.
Yunâs actions were negligent. We have yet to see intent.
So youâve called for a vote of no confidence because Yun didnât do enough to upset the status quo, and now youâre excoriating him for going too far in potentially upsetting the status quo.
Maybe itâs time to ask yourself if being transparently self-contradictory to go after Yun is really helping your case.
Listen here, my friend. I donât appreciate you twisting my words and making me out to be some kind of flip-flopper. My stance on Ambassador Yun has been crystal clear from the start, and itâs you whoâs trying to muddy the waters with your strawman arguments.
These fallacies may work on some people, but they wonât fly with me. Itâs high time we stop trying to derail productive conversations and start engaging with each other in good faith. So, letâs cut the nonsense and stick to the facts.
Iâm not twisting your words at all. Hereâs how you started:
âYun puts the Republic at risk by not doing enough!â
and now:
âYun puts the Republic at risk by doing too much!â
Seriously, make up your mind. Youâre here decrying him for raising concerns in a venue where nothing can be done, while 36h ago, you were decrying him for not managing to do more in that same venue, because you didnât understand what the Assembly is actually for.
I get it. You donât like the guy, for whatever reason. But a little consistency, please.
Of all the people potentially deserving âa vote of no confidenceâ (1) Iâm pretty surprised Keitan Yun is the one we start from. Iâm not a fan of his as such, but even then I have to say I feel he manages to walk the line between diplomacy and appeasement with open eyes and more candor than many could get away with, in his position.
CONCORD upholds the status quo between the Empire and the Federation, and by extension the Republic and the State. Thatâs its purpose. We must have a representative in those chambers, or be walked over by the older powers.
But if change will come to the status quo, it will come from outside of there.
(1) No such thing as a âvote of no confidenceâ exists here, of course, unless youâre the Tribal council, but Iâm pretty sure everyone in the discussion is aware of this.
The idea that we must have a representative in CONCORD to prevent being walked over by the older [sic other] powers is a flawed one. And if the Assembly and by extension its Officers are ineffective we should not be complacent.
We should not rely solely on our representative to protect us - we must also be actively working to strengthen our own position and assert our own power. Instead, we should focus on building alliances and coalitions with other like-minded factions to strengthen our position and ensure that our interests are represented in any decision-making processes. What we should not do is let spill our own bowls in a system that will do nothing at best, and feast from us at worst.
By holding them accountable and calling out their shortcomings we can work to improve the system internally and externally and create a more just and equitable world for all.
