Dev blog: Abyssal Deadspace - What Lies Beyond The Filament

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(Arthur Aihaken) #181

F3 filaments are still a mixed bag of snakes depending on NPC spawns. Only F1-F2 filaments can be completed with a reasonable degree of success.


(Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance) #182

It’s just the 20 min timer for all lvl’s. Seems daft.

I would be fine with the loss of the ship and pod as long as I have as long as I need while inside to have fun trying.

Let’s not confuse a difficult challenge with utter frustration.


(Alderson Point) #183

A lot of what you say makes sense here, but let’s take a step back and look at things without the preconceptions that CCP have introduced in response to … whatever feedback they had before putting on sisi.

Firstly, there being a cost to failing the pocket is reasonable, not having time to collect the rewards, that’s fine. The Player ship and pod blowing up? What on Earth for? that’s just sadistic and unnecessary.

Second Cost of engaging with the content. Taking into account the previous point, the cost of running these is actually not the isk in isolation it is the time. For a 20 Minute run, the actual cost is two weeks grinding other PVE to replace one’s deadspace fit HAC. That is so out of proportion it beggars belief! And for those who say it only takes a day or two, to replace, if you are so rich, and can earn so quickly, you are going to continue with super-ratting regardless.

The core decision to punish failure in such a severe manner, is a grave mistake, it will please some, some will be happy to see others made to suffer so, but those it pleases will not be the customers one wishes to actually run these. Possibly designing this content for the customers who will take part in running it, is more sensible than balancing it for those who have no intention of actually doing it and don’t want others to enjoy it.

I desperately want this to succeed, I like many others welcome with open arms the opportunity of new fun PVE, this could be the greatest leap that CCP have introduced in the last ten years. But… after running it on SISI, as it stands, I won’t be doing it on TQ, the scenery is gorgeous, interesting AI, new lore, new ships, amazing effects that modify the dungeon, beautiful and imaginative artwork, all wonderful, but the punishment mechanic, baked in at the core, designed to force long term grinding, makes it less pleasant than going through niarja in a T1 industrial with Plex on board.

I’d love to do these, but not like this.


(Arthur Aihaken) #184

No one has a problem with cost or risk vs. reward. As it currently stands, however - there is almost no reward for total risk.

If you run any kind of mission (particularly Burners), while you may lose your ship you also have the ability to salvage the wreck. And you don’t get podded along with any valuable implants. Neither is true with Abyssal pockets.

If you screw up in a standard mission you at least have the prospect of bailing (pull range, MJD, etc.) Burners missions are less forgiving, but there are also numerous cap stable fits that minimize risk.

If there was a way to extend the timer or mitigate risk in these Abyssal pockets that would be a different matter.


(Alderson Point) #185

ZQuite true, however, increasing the reward, only compounds the problem. Whilst it may make the grind to replace losses shorter, it doesn’t make The unpleasantness any less. Now I know with gambling one tends to forget one’s losses and remember one’s wins, but Gambling wins give an instant dopamine hit, the win is concrete. Gains in this are deferred, one needs to sell or build the items, so the losses will have a far greater psychological impact.

As an example, I remember EVERY single PVP loss, I only remember a few of those I won. The same applies to PVE, I have no idea how much ISK I made and what loot and LP I got in 2015, but I remember Disconnecting and losing that Tengu though. (And I’m Still angry)

Of course a few “wise” people amongst us will be able to calculate that they will have a profit of 10-20% over their losses, so it is overall worthwhile, after a month or two, but most PVE players haven’t made this level of risk evaluation their life’s goal, especially those who have limited time and a 20 minute time slot is their gaming opportunity.

Can we actually have the PVE balanced according to the target market please?


(Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance) #186

hmm seems there are seperate posts going on for this.

Abyssal Deadspace - What Lies Beyond The Filament that invites us to discuss the matter here Dev blog: Abyssal Deadspace - What Lies Beyond The Filament

Then there is also Abyssal Deadspace now live on Singularity for testing

…anyhoo, I have expressed my point enough, going back to building minmitar flight controls with my highly qualified expert.


(Fluffy Moe) #187

My take after doing a couple of these every day on Sisi and 15 ish a day on weekends, is as follows:

Filaments level 1 and 2 are OK. Lvl 1 is easy to do in a wide variety of ships, a lot of fun. Lvl 2 starts getting challenging, you have to match ship / fit to weather and start using various tactics as well as just better flight execution or you will die.

Lvl 3 is where trouble starts, and I can attribute all of it to the spawn RNG. Not just NPC ships but structure spawn RNG, very much including their locations, as well as location of the loot pod. Some lvl 3s are relatively easy, I had a bunch that I finished with 5 to 9 minutes to spare, but some are just outright guaranteed losses. You arrive in the instance and right away on the 1st room you already know you got completely screwed with no way out no matter what you do. This makes it just not viable for longterm gameplay on TQ.

Lvl 4 and 5 content I deem as completely and totally inaccessible. Spawn RNG issues + requires bling to finish, ship + implants + boosters often in excess of 2-3 billion ISK. Then there is the suspect timer. So I am guaranteed a loss of around 3 bil within 2-3 instances I run, that’s if I don’t get unlucky and it happens outright on the 1st one, then I have to deal with the whole suspect timer thing ?

LOL !!! Who in their right mind is going to stick to that ? The ISK multi-billionaires ? The mass bot owners from NS ? Titan dealers ? Just EL-OH-FKN-EL !!!


(Rek Seven) #188

Looks really boring to be honest. Same old thing with a new coat of paint.

I’m guessing this is the “new space” that was promised years ago, and so it is very disappointing that this is was that was…

I’m beginning to realise that eve is not capable of adding anything truly new, either due to game engine, coding issues, or simple the the fear of change.


(Alderson Point) #189

Please don’t be so pessimistic, hope is the only thing that keeps us going. Maybe they will listen to the people that will do them this time? And we can breath a sigh of relief?

Hope is a fragile thing though.


(Arthur Aihaken) #190

energizer-bunny-gif


(Yiole Gionglao) #191

EVE Online development, 2013 - ?

:grin:


(zluq zabaa) #192

There are different sides to the appeal of Abyssal Deadspace. In the short term we will see a run on the sites, simply for the reason that Triglavian Ships, Skillbooks and Modules will be sourced from there. That I am sure of.

The mid or long term is unpredictable. If any of the ships will be used as a common fleet doctrine, this will at least provide a certain motivation. Mutaplasmids will also play a huge role in wether or not these sites will see long term use. It will be difficult for CCP to hit the sweet spot with them, between module balance, droprates and opportunity cost. There will be a lot of hype and a lot of pain surrounding them. The Devs will need to stay on top of this.

Then, let’s not forget that the entire expansion is something that CCP could build upon in future steps. They may increment Abyssal Deadspace itself, they may implement some of its mechanics in older parts of EVE.

And finally, I think that one of the most appealing factors of Abyssal Deadspace is the fact that due to its design we will not see all of New Eden perma-farming Tier5 from day one. The sites have changed quite considerably over the time. Apart from that we should not forget that every player who runs tests approaches them in their own way. While one may find Type/Tier X completely unsolveable, another might see it as just a little bit of a challenge. There is no all around safe solution for everyone yet and that’s a good thing.

Everyone will be able to run Tier1 and Tier2 sites, if they can simply adapt to the time cap and understand the implications the weather will have on their ship. Most people will run many of them before even trying Tier3 or higher. Alas, wether they persist depends on them finding what they seek in these sites: be it fun, be it loot or be it both.


(James Amril-Kesh) #193

This wouldn’t be a dev blog thread if there weren’t a tiny handful of people whining as hard as possible to make their points seem to have more general support than they actually do.


(Arthur Aihaken) #194

Speak for yourself. I’d hardly call it “whining” when numerous players have all expressed the same reservations and concerns.


(Ildrara) #195

You speak for the silent majority who don’t frequent the forums?


(Arthur Aihaken) #196

I speak for myself alone - it just so happens that I agree with many of those that have expressed similar viewpoints. I’ve run the Abyssal pockets on SiSi, but despite being visually striking - I find the new content lacking.

To each their own, but the “silent majority” will almost certainly become much more vocal in just over a week’s time.


(Ildrara) #197

Possibly. Just don’t imply you speak for a great number of people when you actually have no idea.

I am looking forward to this expansion. I have a pretty good idea of what the vocal few think of it as well. Until it is live neither of us should speak for thousands of players as yet unheard.


(Arthur Aihaken) #198

Pretty sure I never claimed to. Glad you’re looking forward to it, though. I suspect you may be in the minority unless CCP overhauls this before next week.


(Ildrara) #199

Okay.


(Arthur Aihaken) #200

This isn’t the only thread where discussion has occurred (nor the only medium).