Dev blog: Balance Changes Coming In The March Release

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jin_taan

Currently, people do not do so

@Salvos_Rhoska

So is the AU speed not why people dont roam in BS?

If it isnt, then what is the point in increasing it?

This is the third time Ive asked this.
Please answer it.

[Jeremiah_Saken]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Then its a crap deal for other non-BS ships.

no it’s not they’ll still get faster than today. I think that this should be regressive improvement. Starts from 1AU and droped to 0.2 AU at fastest ships.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Why should slower ships get the most benefit?

Jin already summ it up nicely in above posts. There’s always need to be bigger fish.

[Jin_taan]

@Salvos_Rhoska

So is the AU speed not why people dont roam in BS?

Travel time is the reason people do not roam in Battleships, as I have repeatedly stated, in direct answer to this question. I understand you want me to say “AU/s is not the only reason” so you can pounce on it, but AU/s is a contributing factor to why BS’ move slowly on a strategic level, and one of the only factors you can reasonably address without impacting things such as combat effectiveness, which reducing the time-to-warp would do, as you’d be necessarily increasing the agillity of Battleships, which would be a Bad Thing™.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jeremiah_Saken

There’s always need to be bigger fish.

Thats called power creep.

I will not agree to an AU increase to BS, just so they can roam at 3AU.

BS are restricted in AU/mobility, by design.
I see no reason to change that.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jin_taan

Travel time is the reason people do not roam in Battleships

Then dont.

Roam in Frigates/Destoyers/Cruisers/BC instead.
All of these can tackle targets providing time for BS to arrive at their conventional 2AU

[Jin_taan]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Then dont.

Roam in Frigates/Cruisers/BC instead.

@Jin_taan

As I’ve said before, there are other tools, but saying “You just shouldn’t roam in Battleships” seems like a suboptimal state of the game, as ships are balanced within the context of its counters, and ships like Battlecruisers and Cruisers are intended to have their power mediated by the potential of running into Battleships. If people do not have the option to roam in Battleships under any circumstances due to the large amount of time it adds to roams, that upsets the ecosystem of balance.

I see no reason to type this out again.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jin_taan

If people do not have the option to roam in Battleships under any circumstances due to the large amount of time it adds to roams, that upsets the ecosystem of balance.

As I said, changing BS AU rate is what would upset the balance of the ecosystem.

BS can roam, but at 2AU.
If that is not fast enough for you, use faster ships instead.

[Davlos]

And here we observe a circular argument in its natural habitat.

[Jin_taan]

@Salvos_Rhoska

As I said, changing BS AU rate is what would upset the balance of the ecosystem.

And, as I said, I feel the ecosystem is currently out of balance in terms of BS’ being underrepresented and impacting how BC’s and Cruisers are used in a way that I don’t think is conducive to good game-play as it doesn’t give enough flexibility to the attackers. If you want to disagree with that, we can agree to disagree

[Jeremiah_Saken]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I will not agree to an AU increase to BS, just so they can roam at 3AU.

ok we noted, Salvos Rhoska will not agree to increase BS AU speed. Nothing else to add.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jin_taan

And, as I said, I feel the ecosystem is currently out of balance in terms of BS’ being underrepresented and impacting how BC’s and Cruisers are used in a way that I don’t think is conducive to good game-play as it doesn’t give enough flexibility to the attackers.

There is a standard military thumb-rule, that when attacking an enemy on their own ground, you need at least a 3:1 ratio.

Frigates/Destroyers/Cruisers/BC arrive first and engage/tackle the enemy.
BS with their much higher EHP/dps, arrive later.

[Jeremiah_Saken]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Frigates/Destroyers/Cruisers/BC arrive first and engage/tackle the enemy.

BS with their much higher EHP/dps, arrive later.

yep, after the 1 AU increase they still be the last on the field.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jeremiah_Saken

yep, after the 1 AU increase they still be the last on the field.

Yes, which means changing the AU speed serves no purpose, for purposes of arriving earlier on the field.

[Jeremiah_Saken]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Yes, which means changing the AU speed serves no purpose, for purposes of arriving earlier on the field.

… the whole idea of increasing the warp speed for BS started because they just too slow to start to bother with. Fit a BS and roll 30 jumps then you get what we all meant.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jeremiah_Saken

… the whole idea of increasing the warp speed for BS started because they just too slow to start to bother with.

Bother with for what activity?
Roaming, right?

Lets be real here, you want to fly BS fleet roams, faster, so you dont have to fly Cruisers/BC.

You want to fly high EHP/DPS BS and wreck anyone not flying a BS fleet.
You do realize there is a huge difference between EHP/DPS of BS vs even BCs right?

How about you skill into Cruisers/BC instead?

---

TLDR: If you want to roam faster, use faster ships.

[Jeremiah_Saken]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Bother with for what activity?

all activities, this is a game and I don’t want to sit before the screen watching how slow is my BS, and that’s where the BS currently are.

Jin wrote a post how the change will impact the BS speed, what is the meta state of BS, arguments seems reasonable while yours are “bring a BC or C”. If he’ll ask for this change as CSM he has my full support, because I’m asking for this from day one after the warp change.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jeremiah_Saken

I don’t want to sit before the screen watching how slow is my BS, and that’s where the BS currently are.

Then fly a faster ship.

@Jeremiah_Saken

If he’ll ask for this change as CSM he has my full support, because I’m asking for this from day one after the warp change.

Elections are coming up.
He may not be re-elected, and I might be elected

I see what you want.
You want to roam in BS and nuke the hell out of anyone that isnt flying BS.
You probably invested heavily in BS training for PvE, and now got bored and want to roam with it, You dont want to train into Cruisers/BCs to do that.

As I stated before, we know that people have no issue with roaming with cruisers at 3AU.

It thus can rationally be deduced, that those same players (and dedicated BS pilots) will have no problem flying BS at 3AU for speed, rather than Cruisers at 3AU as they do now.

I think you are grossly understating/misunderstanding how huge the EHP/DPS leap is on BS as compared to Cruisers and BCs.

What you propose, WILL result in power creep and supplanting of Cruisers/BCs as roaming fleet ships of choice, by BS.

I will not allow that to happen.

[Jin_taan]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I think you are grossly understating/misunderstanding how huge the EHP/DPS leap is on BS as compared to Cruisers and BCs.

Dude you’re in a rookie corp and you have 4 losses as the only entry on your KB, post with your main if you’re going to make statements that rely on people to trust your theorycrafting chops. I mean, you claimed the switch from 2 to 3 AU/s would make them 50% faster in terms of travel time, which was provably false.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Jin_taan

Dude you’re in a rookie corp and you have 4 losses as the only entry on your KB, post with your main if you’re going to make statements that rely on people to trust your theorycrafting chops.

This is my main, and the only character I ever post with.

@Jin_taan

I mean, you claimed the switch from 2 to 3 AU/s would make them 50% faster in terms of travel time, which was provably false.

Yes, you proved that false it seems.
I was not aware of diminishing returns regarding AU increase.
Ill review what you posted more attentively later.

But even your conclusion was that a faster warping vessel arrives faster at the target, compared to before, and thus results in a direct correlation in reduced reaction time to initiate their alignment.

Ie: The faster a ship warps in AU, the less time the target has to react.

[Jin_taan]

Just as a point of curiosity, have you ever roamed nullsec for a long period of time (1h+)?