Yes, I have.
Iâm highly surprised you didnât manage to get any kills or losses in that time. Fair enough.
I didnt say it was on this character.
Sure, but the point being made here is that the reaction time decrease is negligible, whereas the time saved for a BS pilot makes them roaming more of a reasonable option, giving other options for pilots to choose from when roaming.
Thats where we disagree.
I do not think BS should be a âmore reasonable roaming optionâ, due to power creep and supplanting Cruisers/BC as the preferred choice.
As I have explained many times over:
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We know that 3AU is a threshold people are prepared to roam at. They do so with Cruisers and BCs at 2.75AU. We can therefore deduce that if BS travel at 3AU, these same players, and ofc BS specialised pilots ontop of that, will prefer to use BS after the change.
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The EHP/DPS gap between Cruisers/BC and BS, is huge. Far greater than the difference between any other sub-cap classes. Thus BS roaming fleets at 3AU invariably results in power creep.
Not really at all for EHP, itâs a roughly linear increase, which is the same as all classes. (I will note that is from memory as I donât have pyfa to hand ATM, so could be out by a few thousand).
Kestrel - 5k EHP
Jackdaw - 15k EHP
Caracal - 30k EHP
Cerberus - 60-70k EHP
Ferox - 110k EHP
Raven - 150-180k EHP
You can certainly brick them out more by adding dual tanks, but they absolutely do not suddenly jump up in EHP. And beyond that, BSâ need support - or application mods - to properly apply the DPS, which also scales linearly with ship size. A BS is good at killing BCâs, and needs help killing Cruisers if youâre using LR weapons and itâs up close, and you generally canât reach Medium LR with Large CR. The Apoc nd potentially Abbadon being the main exceptions, and they come with an incredible lack of on-grid mobillity, as is the drawback for that.
I mean, we see fleets that are not BSâ being used at every scale for a reason, they have inherent combat advantages other than âbeing fastâ in order to prevent BSâ from being the only viable option in every situation.
Except we had a time where all ships moved at 3AU/s, and BSâ were not the only roaming ship, or even a majority of them, as theyâre still relatively slow and only work vs certain opposing fleet comps. I do not see how making them move at 3AU/s would cause them to suddenly become a supermajority as opposed to another solid option. And, in my opinon, the fact that people could bring BSâ made that meta vastly more healthy as people couldnât overspecialize their defense fleets against the C/BC range and had to make decisions.
âTheyâre cheapâ (because currently, if you bring battleships, bring Machs, or youâll die to Machs) or âtheyâre less massive for a wormholeâ or yeah, âtheyâre fastâ.
Itâs a matter of expectations, Jin. If you speed up battleships, people will be thrilled for a day, a week⌠and then battleships will be âslowâ again and theyâll get pissed off and frustrated with them again. As you point out, itâs not even going to reduce travel time much (14%?), so battleships still wonât be the fleets you see being trucked across New Eden to get in on a big fight.
So if itâs not going to affect who roams in what, and itâs not going to affect ship selection for strategic purposes⌠what purpose does the change serve? What does it actually achieve?
Edit: Also - this is a hell of a lot of discussion about a player-suggested change thatâs not even in the patch.
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Less time in warp is a good thing. Even though Eve is about the journey lets not make the âjourneyâ from one place to another so time consumingâŚ
Buffing battleships a bit to make them more viable choice wouldnât automatically make them the go-to choice for everyone. They still have their own disadvantages.
Good luck trying to raise BS AU.
I am absolutely against it, for reasons I have stated above, many times.
Maybe. Remember BS used to be at 3AU/s, this would be reverting them back to a speed everyone was used to.
Before, they were nerfed by warp speed changes forcing them slower than they were used to. Combined with already slow align times, many felt it was unreasonable to roam long distance with them.
With capital changes (and the fatigue buffs coming up), itll be easier/faster to roam the galaxy with a carrier/dread than a battleship. If people want to be concerned about big guns moving around quickly, id be more concerned about a HAW dread than a battleship roam (at least intel will see battleships coming, as opposed to being cynoâd in).
If battleships recieved a warp increase, it would be much easier to dissolve concerns of people saying âbattleships are too slowâ by saying âtheyve been buffed back to their original speed, this is normalâ. There would not be a net loss if these changes were implemented, like there was when warp speed changes occurred. Most people would be more understanding then, and the rest we can point back to saying theyve already been buffed and are at their original speed again, therefore ending those threads about making BS warp faster.
Edit: As far as why make the change, as Jinâs maths show, its a 14% increase to travel time. Its not an overbearing buff that could disrupt balance like a 50% or 100% buff would. Generally its better to make incremental changes, rather than large sweeping changes. This would satisfy the players that want their speeds increased to be more managable for solo/small gang roaming with little loss to how fleets interact.
Please buy a Megathron and go to Hoala. Tell me how much good your battleships is when you get yolo-kited by frigates and how much pwerful your 1200 dps boat is that doesnât hit anything.
Let the class know how that went.
I think heâs more concerned his ratting cynabal will get dunked on by spooky BS ship gang.
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Note that that is with a warp of 27 AU, the gap between 0% & 50% varies by distance. Any warp thatâs less than 3.8 AU has no change, a warp of infinite length would be 50% exactly. Maths!
And a speed that now, nobody is used to. No newer players are âused to itâ. No older ones, either, theyâre all used to battleships warping at Machariel-speeds.
And no, a 14% improvement to travel time isnât going to mean a damned thing. âOh, we only need to travel for 50 minutes instead of an hour to get there? sure!â
Machâs warp at exactly 3AU. So now every BS warps at mach speed. Youre saying all the null members who field machs wouldnt suddenly notice all battleships warp comparably to machs?
Machs are how older battleships warped. They are used to it. Now it applies to all of them, instead of the just mach (and mach would still warp like a cruiser).
There are plenty of vets who still play, theyd be happy to have BS warp speed back to where it was. Any new line member in a mach would also see these changes and would basically be like flying a mach in any battleship they sit in (excluding align times).
So yes, anyone who has flown a mach would be used to those speeds.
Travel time buff of 10min is still a buff. Its an incremental buff, better than doing nothing. Imagine if CCP never buffed/adjusted jump fatigue. They did incremental patches, then released a major adjustment.
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That was snark, dude. People are complaining about BS warp speeds and wanting them to go to 3, right? So clearly, thatâs not what those people are used to. Meanwhile, the Machâs getting nerfed (not its speed [yet], but itâs clearly being punished for being âtoo goodâ).
I kind of wish there was a way to out of client find out how far gates on a route were apart so I could math out a better example of time-saved here tbh
Pretty sure GTS does it for computing travel time.
Edit: Yup! Gimme the route you want.
Edit 2: For example, a Megathron takes 1h 9m to get from 1dq to M-O. A Thorax takes 49m, 10s. And an Ishtar takes 46m 37s. All times using nothing but gates.
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The mach does not equal all battleships.
Theyre used to 3AU/s warp and spoiled by it through the mach (no one complains about bringing a mach on a cruiser roam). The only reason people keep bringing up warp speed is because it was nerfed and they remember how BS roaming was before. Or they compare how the mach warps and then sit in something that isnt the mach and find it to be too slow.
Newer players who have flown the mach get spoiled by it, then repeat the same thing vets say about BS warp speed need to increase when they fly something that isnt a mach.
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