Dev blog: Moon mining revamped - There’s Ore in Them Thar Moons


(Querns) #381

The argument is that we’ve diversified our income away from moongoo. We are hardly unique or special in Eve; we play the same game as everyone else. More to the point, we’re not particularly capable or clever; if we can do it, so can the rest of you.

In order for anyone other than a large, supercap-having group to profit from moons, the design needs to be active harvest. The way moons work today, only a handful of entities can play. Of course we’re going to rock the new system hard; but we’re only going to be able to do it in our little chunk of Eve thanks to Jump Fatigue. All the bogey men you’re shitting your pants about also have to abide by Jump Fatigue, and this provides room for folks with less might to actually get to play. You just have to undock.

(Rekindle) #382

This change misses all marks and will do the same thing all your other changes in the last 3 years have done: empower bigger blocks. Your path towards killing the casual/passive aspects of moon mining will only take more content away from the small blocks and give more to the bigger ones. And seriously - you expect miners to sit there like bait all the time?

(Querns) #383

I’m sure that the supercapital supremacy needed to keep and hold moons with the current design counts as “casual gameplay.”

(Rekindle) #384

With that thinking hit the nail on the head. The current system appears flawed to the people who no longer actually play this game or have much insight as a casual player so let’s replace it with something that looks and feels like many of the other changes we’ve done in the last 2 years. Each of the major revamps they did solved few of the original problems they intended to resolve and left us progressively more entrenched in design elements that favor larger blocks more than the previous iteration. The question a lot of us asking is when will such flawed thinking stop and some fresh ideas emerge.?

(Querns) #385

So, as recently as six months ago, people were swearing up and down that passive moongoo mining was the only reason large blocs were as big as they were. Now, passive moongoo is apparently the only thing keeping the “little guy” afloat. How amusing.

(Sgt Ocker) #386

Quince Ozuwara8h Querns
To be fair, they are definitely not the only ones doing it - It’s just that the GSF does it better than anyone else.

They do it better than anyone else because they have spent years working out the most risk averse ways to do things.

The old CFC motto comes to mind here - “We aren’t out the wreck THE game, just your’s” - Which they manage to do on a grander scale than CCP are prepared to acknowledge (or attempt to curtail).

NB; The motto now is - Risk aversion at all costs…

If you want to line your wallet while not being at risk - Create an alt and put it in a GSF corp, there are still a few who will take anyone that can breathe.

(Querns) #387

The game of telephone continues.

Fun fact: That’s a thing Darius Johnson said, and it referred to Goons in particular, not any coalition. Darius Johnson wasn’t involved with the “CFC” at all.

Also, it’s adorable that you continue to call it the “CFC.” Screaming “IT’S CONSTANTINOPLE” until your vocal chords become bloody shredded beef won’t make the people of Istanbul agree with you.

(Sgt Ocker) #388

Actually I don’t call it anything - The ONLY time I ever think about Goons is when we are dropping on their one man Rorqual blobs.

Fun fact - That’s actually true;
You might want to take a second and look before you commit to posting - - If that isn’t “part of the CFC” no-one was ever a part of it. From memory, he was in GoonWaffe (for the 2nd time) when he coined the phrase…

(Querns) #389

The man took his job at CCP in 2010. The Clusterfuck Coalition didn’t become a thing until 2011.

Try again.

(Garen Lemmont) #390

@CCP_Lebowski moon mining changes, very interesting! My question concerns moon chunk field position. If I establish a (example) 7 day spawn period, will the moon chunk field that is created every 7 days always appear in the same (roundabout) location with respect to the puller structure? If so, will there be any game mechanic preventing the anchoring of something… like an astrahus, so the field spawn is directly on top of it? (obv assuming a stand-off distance from the refinery moon chunk puller ray structure)

Just noodling on strategies I would use to mitigate loss if I was an owner or to bait others if I wasn’t.

(Sgt Ocker) #391

The man took his job at CCP in 2010. The Clusterfuck Coalition didn’t become a thing until 2011.

Try again.

My bad… It must have been his 3rd time.

Someone who belonged to Goon corps for pretty much the duration of the CFC (and his playing career), I would consider them a part of it.

(Querns) #392

You’d be wrong, then. He had nothing to do with the CFC or the Imperium at all.

(Sgt Ocker) #393

Not sure how you think this might work but I can’t see any group who has a moon just sitting back while someone else anchors a citadel on their grid.
Would be interesting to see if it could be done what the outcome would be. I imagine it would be destroyed quite quickly.

As for where the chunk appears, my guess it would be pretty much in the same place each time as it needs to end up in the same place every time. They will basically be a static belt, the only variable being when it will appear, not where.

(Rivr Luzade) #394

Only for the first time and definitely not on the new money moons. Mining the moon asteroid field also shows up on the map, and very likely in systems that weren’t mined before (except for Delve, probably), which means it is also easy to track after the first time.

(Coralas) #395

The goo was in null and low before, and its in null and low now, and now it requires spaceships to go get it. I can’t see how thats less risk.

The only thing that changed is that where once 1 player with a cyno alt account and a jumpfreighter could service 100 towers in a month, it will actually be done by lots of players now.

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #396

Or by many many cheap mining alts, it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.

(Coralas) #397

I’m living with a group that holds exactly 1 null system right now. Its been camped all day by a snuffed related character (one that is used to drop them). So what I did was go run a whole constellation of relics and datas (200m) and a paramilitary I spotted whilst hacking (300m) for a nice half bil on a camped day.

I expect when this patch hits to install 3 or so refineries, and I expect to trigger them all for roughly the same time, so that if we are camped by an entity that can drop major numbers on our heads, we can just keep moving around and force the camper to either follow or show themselves as afk.

That means for a ninja miner, there should be fields that are popped, but are not being worked, and there should be fields guarded by cloakies who are not interested in you, but are interested in the owners.

The fact that you mightn’t be able to force a ninja mining effort whilst the structure owner is there is completely expected, normal and desired. Honestly wtf.

(Zetakya) #398

Ok, so I’ve just skimmed past 100 posts of “grr gons, hat gons”, and I have some observations to make:

  1. The Mining meta in respect of Moon fields is currently largely unknown. However, we have the following statement from CCP in the initial Dev Blog:

This indicates the expectation that ISK/M³ (& therefore ISK/hour) will exceed ABG Mining in Anomalies.

What we currently don’t know is if there will be restrictions on mining typology, either hard coded (per Mercoxit), or effective by rock size. If the rocks are extremely valuable by m³ but of a size that is too small for effective Rorqual Mining, that will enforce a different Meta than a Rorqual-Mining paradise spawned on demand.

  1. The presence of regular Ores in Moon fields will have an effect upon the viability of LowSec and NPC NullSec industry. Both zones could see increased industrial player activity if those resident in those areas choose to go that route. So it’s not all about Moon Goo - expect Moons with large volumes of valuable regular Ores to also be valuable, especially in those regions without Ore Anomalies.

  2. The viability of ninja mining will depend to a large extent on the ISK/m³ of the Moon Goo Ore and their prevalence in the Ore Field. If we assume that CCP will want to encourage active Ninja Mining as a replacement for Siphoning, then ISK/m³ would need to be high enough for the Prospect to satisfy a RoI analysis.

(Querns) #399

Interactions with mining development index only occurs in sov null, and with a month between moongoo belts, an index not encumbered by traditional mining will decay completely.

(zluq zabaa) #400

Agreed, three more things though:

  1. Currently you get 100 Units of Moongoo per hourly cycle and the entire things is so perfectly plannable, that you can break down every T2 product into Pos cycles. It will be interesting to see if the amount of Goo through Ore will be equally plannable and about the same amount of Goo per fracking hour as now with MHAs. Any major change in the monthly output will lead to:

  2. How many Refineries will you need in comparison to POSes to get the same amount of Goo. Refineries are going to be a higher upfront investment, while it is currently unclear (afaik) how much fuel will be needed for both fracking and running reactions.

  3. Grr Goo, not Grr Goons

Nah, you’re right, we got a tad side-tracked there.