Dev blog: Moon mining revamped - There’s Ore in Them Thar Moons


(Soldarius) #608

If you are paying rl cash to mine – an activity that is supposed to make you isk – you’re are doing it so wrong that you clearly have no clue how to play this game.

(Pestilen Ratte) #609

No, I don’t mine. Unless the corp is mining ice for fuel, then it is a social thing.

I pay my sub to train into new and interesting ship classes. The mining sim is too much time to justify the isk, imo.

But I am still interested in how mining will affect the rest of the game. That’s all.

(Wyk Bathana) #610

Sorry if i missed the information, but is there any difference between the small and large drilling platform? i mean, other than hp. Will the size of moon chunk be different? will the number of reactions will be different?..

thks for your help


(CCP Masterplan) #611

For purely running moon extractions, both types of structure use the same service module to extract the same chunks, producing the same amounts of material. The main differences are that the L has higher fitting capacity (allowing more defensive modules, for example, or extra services) and that Rorquals can dock at the L but not the M. Oh, and there are some differences in vulnerability hours too.

(Wyk Bathana) #612

thks very much

(Bill Lane) #613

Not sure if this has been asked yet, but can we get a timer on the Structure Browser window that shows when the pull cycle for the refineries will finish? Much like the fuel expires column, would just list how long until your cycle is up and the rock is ready.

(Zetakya) #614

It’s on a serarate tab.

(Neugeniko) #615

Using the values from sisi atm and 85% refine a unbonused 2 mlu hulk mines moon ore at about 16M-210M per hour depending on the ore type (128-1700 isk per m3). Double for jackpot ore spawn.


(Ebony Texas) #616

no there isn’t… 1st of all there’s some bugs going on with the structure… you have 20 hrs spread across the week, selected blocks the window should be up… why am I seeing windows open during times for which there should be NO OPEN WINDOWS!.

sorry ccp but you have some mess to fix cause these structures and the vulnerability windows are broken.

(Nevyn Auscent) #617

Vulnerability windows can be kited by applying damage over the repair threshold for a while. The Window is only for when you can start attacking the structure. Once it’s started they just have to keep the repair timer from kicking in and they can go outside it.

If you are seeing NPC’s damaging it, there has been discussion that the NPC’s manage to ignore the timers, which certainly is a bug but not on the vulnerability window side. And should be reported with evidence using the bug report feature.

As should your issue if it’s neither of the above.
But it works fine for 99% of users, so you’ve either got a very edge case combining factors, or you’ve made an error in what you are seeing.

(Scipio Artelius) #618

Unfortunately yes. They are trying though, but refinery destruction in lowsec far outstrips the other areas of space by a long way at the moment:

Those figures to the end of last week.

Fighting over resources has been a great conflict driver in lowsec for a long time and the high rate of refinery loss isn’t itself a problem.

More the combination of that with the need to mine the minerals now. Seems to be laying waste to lowsec groups, though that’s just a feeling I have. No data to validate whether that is truly the case.

(Nevyn Auscent) #619

Given neither high sec nor J space have moon mining, one would expect Low & Null to show a far higher rate of destruction because there will be far more refineries going up.
Unless we have figures that tell us what percentage of refineries built in each area are being destroyed total destruction is at best an inferred guess as to what it means. Since we don’t know how many are built.

(Scipio Artelius) #620

Lowsec doesn’t outstrip nullsec in any other metric of structure loss; and you wouldn’t expect it to normally (not even for POS destruction, which has been a conflict driver in lowsec forever).

You can ask for whatever figures you want to make a different point to that above, but if you want those figures, go collect the data.

There’s no big rivalry in lowsec anymore. There’s no Snuff v Shadow anymore. No Nocturnal Romance, etc. it’s all smaller groups without the ability to effectively defend their assets (just one interpretation of the figures above). That isn’t an issue. Destruction is good.

Just symptomatic of these changes not being great for lowsec, though hopefully with the value of moons still being there, some groups grow large as a result. It doesn’t appear to be happening yet and lowsec has declined a bit.

(Nevyn Auscent) #621

Sure… As soon as CCP give me access to the server databases for me to pull that sort of information from I will…
I.E. Lets not be stupid about demanding people go and collect data that is not reasonably available. Collecting the kills is well done from the killboards, but the number placed down is CCP knowledge only.

However pointing out that there are problems in the simplistic analysis and that there are significant reasons for differences in some of the numbers is still valid, even without the full figures.

It’s sure still an interesting stand out figure (Though I’d be very interested to know how many Fitted vs Unfitted POS died in Low vs Null), and certainly has implications. But it’s not reasonable to draw a conclusion such as the above from a single piece of data without deeper analysis.

(Scipio Artelius) #622

That or do what others do and go collect it yourself. CCP isn’t going to give access to that data by api. You can get it by region from the structure viewer though.

It’s not hard data to collect.

(Nevyn Auscent) #623

Unless I’ve missed something the structure viewer only gives you structures that you have docking rights at, Which means any private corp/alliance structures like one would expect most of low & null to be don’t show up in the viewer, so it has to be done per system.

(Scipio Artelius) #624

Yeah that true. My mistake from when I did that previously with Citadels after all the complaints about how easy they were to kill and how there was no spam.

Should be combined with a random sampling process to sample a respresentative number of systems in each region, to count the total refineries.

Happy to send you the approach to selection of systems I used before.

(Fish Hunter) #625

Probably need to clarify most of the Refinery losses can be attributed to destruction during one of the two anchoring vulnerability windows. It should be noted that relatively few fitted athanors have been killed, though the percentage of unfitted to fitted is changing as we continue.

(Scipio Artelius) #626

By relatively few, of the 222 refineries killed in lowsec as of now, 35% have been fitted.

Depending on perspective, that seems to be a fairly large percentage.

However, the Christmas/New Year period may be affecting that, since there is a definite change in the unfit/fit loss rate by week, but much lower numbers over the current period:

The last week there is the current one, so doesn’t end until Sunday night.

I’m not sure of the significance of when they are killed (ie. in anchoring, or afterwards), but it will be interesting to monitor for a few months to get some better data.

(Nevyn Auscent) #627

Killed in anchoring is a single timer which could indicate merely being opportunistic. Much like people mobbed the hull timer on the first keepstar. Killed while fitted indicates more intentional and committed attacks.
Of the two, committed attacks are what will long term affect the health of low sec (& null sec & everywhere else) entities, since people will learn how to deal with the opportunistic attacks and the anchoring timer better.