Dev Blog: October Balance Pass!

You’re playing EVE. Too late on the nerdy thing.

I don’t see anybody being dishonest.

That’s because the change has already been made. The issue now isn’t whether to make the change, it’s how to address the issues that resulted from the change. So that’s what I asked for folks for - feedback on the changes and how to make these ships better post-change - not their opinions on what should have been done instead.

This isn’t a NS vs. HS vs. whatever issue. Removing it completely from the game could have been done, but it wasn’t. So we now have the existing meta, and the point is now to discuss what, if anything, should be changed to make that meta work.

@Brisc_Rubal I’m taking it out on you a bit and that’s unfair… you have your own agenda but unfortunately, you are CSM and with that comes the wrath of the EvE community… it just so happens you also seem to be numb to the majority of the suggestions in this thread.

It’s nothing personal man, I know you have “X” job to do as CSM, but try and see it from the other side. I know you get ■■■■ from trolls but sorry, you’re CSM, “deal with it” as they say :wink:

All I’m saying is don’t try and spin ■■■■ one way or the other… this community (for the most part) will see through it and I myself (while not the most elite PVP, girl on girl, no refunds) action orientated player, have at least tried to engage and the response has been the same as those just moaning about changes.

Just saying.

o7

I’m not numb to them. I’m reading them, passing them on. I don’t agree with all of them, but I still rep those positions because that’s what I’m supposed to do.

I’m dealing with it. At the same time, take your own advice - put yourself in the shoes of the guys getting jammed out and see if you can understand why they might want the mechanic changed.

(lol, thanks whoever told me how to quote!)
I have and feel my solution fixes that but this discussion is digressing.
Unfortunately for you you are the CSM member that is replying to comments in this thread and I think, regardless of opinion, people participating in this thread should remember that. I don’t for one moment think you ran for CSM or engaged in this thread for the sole purpose of having everyone’s anti-“fix” opinions thrust upon you. Genuinely, thank you for engaging and I appreciate this currently is not a nice place to be.

That said, you appear to have adopted a “computer says ‘no’” approach… be that result of the constant bashing or personal opinion… it is irrelevant. You are CSM and personally I do not think you have acted as a voice for the players in this thread.

I am also not saying I could do better… but them I am not CSM.

If you want to do anything, I would suggest scrolling through this thread and selecting a few people (not me, this isn’t an attempt at self promotion) to represent those the fix impacts and have an open discussion with CCP and/or represent their thoughts.
If you do that and things stay the same, the burden of responsibility can not be squared on your shoulders.

That’s it.

Edit: @Winston_Onzo :heart:

Just wanna point out. I found at least 4 topics, within the past few months or year… talking about ecm needs changed.

Most of what im reading in each topic, all are voicing their opinion about the counters not working as intended. Zealot is a good example.

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linky please? im curious if they were legitimate instances, whereby a proper balance can be achieved, but isn’t; or it its people refusing to fit counters, or they were guna die anyways, or if they should’ve not taken the engagement in the first place. cuz you kno, sometimes ■■■■ just happens? feel me?

This is from the old forums just last year

There are counters to ECM, but they require the right ship set up ahead of time - unless you routinely carry around a Mobile Depot and can refit on the fly, there’s not much you can do about it.

The real issue is in small gang play - with my Kitsune, I can jam out four ships at a time, nearly perfectly, from 70k away. In small gang frigate warfare, this is deadly, because
A) I’m not even range for them to lock me, even if they aren’t jammed, and
B) with a small group of 4-5 people, I’ve just jammed out 80-100% of their DPS.

That’s the reason people don’t like ECM - it’s perfect in large fights, where it impacts a smaller percentage of the enemy ships, and the enemy is more likely to have ECM of their own to counter act the impact. In small gang fights, it has a totally outsized impact in terms of force multiplication.

The concept of ECM is good. I think it’s the implementation that really needs to be looked at - even speaking as an ECM pilot, getting perma jammed just blows.

perhaps the kitsune needed a looking at, tho ive fiddled with it pyfa, and flown its t1 brother, they aren’t exactly brilliant things when fitted for max jams. I mean, sneeze at it and it poofs

Feedback is basically:
You killed it in small fights (imo most fights without logi’s), without giving anything in return… but it has been sad thousand times over…
So question is do you wont to fix the ECM or do you seek some buffs to ECM ships which would make ECM pilots shut up…

I still believe that redoing entire system would be way easier then trying to balance those ships. Simpler the system the better. I would lean towards nonrandom system based on this formula:

  • (jammer strength) - (sensor strength) = jam duration in seconds
  • jamm always lands and brakes all locks

It would require tweaking of the sensor strength on some ships but now you can easily control how each ship would be affected by ECM, some can be completely immune even to strongest ECM, on some it would just work like bursts, armor logis can be more resilient to allow them finish repair cycle and you can also ensure that no ship can be perma jammed.
All sensor support modules would have still their impact perhaps even greater.

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yet another example of something that would have been better than what was implemented.^^

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lol… point 5 is not a reason and shows bias, losing all objectivity.

As mainly a HS pilot, I can agree with this; we have plenty of basic,long-lived issues of our own.

Course, the response I have been noting in here from CCP/CSM, for some reason, seems to be eerily familiar…

never in years of complaints about ecm have i heard suggested the ability to lock back the jamming ship . whoever thought this up was trolling ccp and probably can’t believe they ran with the idea … maybe it would have been a good change for ecm drones .
greying out of locked targets , and shutting down offensive modules was the best solution . it keeps jammed pilots aware of the situation and they’re back in the fight after 20 seconds instead of 20 seconds + time to re-lock . not perfect , but a better starting point than this change …

2 Likes

OK, so someone suggested the fact the “this isn’t a protest… get people hitting a monument… etc” (I’ve paraphrased there but why not?

If enough people feel strongly enough about this, PM me in game (SSjGhost) and I will organise a protest…

invite alts, friends or basically any other person you know…

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I am amazed also that CCP introduced this ECM nerf, what the hell is wrong with them!!! they already had a system in place “ECCM” only the pussies that want Eve to be a run and gun without consequence whinged to have this put in place because they can’t be arsed to use the counter to ECM.

4 Likes

I read the whole post, and watched the full vid.

first the video: the guy was in a fight vs Several pilots. he allowed himself to be surrounded, and after a few minutes of duking it out, the opposing GROUP brought jam drones. shocker: 1 guys vs several, he’s guna die. the key here is the opposing GROUP thought, hey, why lose a single one of our guys to this silly yolo hic? they brought an ecm to prevent team losses.
would this have been a more fun experience if the pov guy got to kill the cynabal or the orthrus? for who? I mean, obviously the from the hic pov it surely would have been more pleasurable to kill something, and he probly would have, IF the opposing Group didn’t take proactive steps to prevent it. but he would have also died in the process. likely. instead, he spent a lot of his unjammed time, locking and killing jam drones; valiant effort, but had he fit a disco instead of that perma-point, or instead of the 5th launcher, he’d have killed the whole swarm of drones in a few bursts of it. he also at no point in the fight, actually USED the eccm script for his sebo. well, duh. even jam drones will get lucky in the right #'s. I kno hindsight is 20/20, and I hate to pick apart a person’s ship loss, but the lessons walked away with shouldn’t have been ecm boohoo, instead, what could I have done to perform better, survive longer, kill better, or should I have even been there in the first place? lots of room to learn…you kno, counters to things that you don’t like.

now the post itself, on reddit no less, was fairly well written, but skipped a few of the ecm nerfs (at least 1 was mentioned) and leaned Heavily on the RNG nature of the effect. Brisc has done this also.
again, since we are trying on other ppl’s shoes here: what aim does a person have, to get soo outraged at the effects of a successful jam on them? hmm? what was that? oh, they are mad because they cant … huh? KILL SOMETHING? of course they still Can, but not the way they set out to. they have to rely on a largely handicapped ship, because 90% of ppl focus fit.
also, he didn’t Elaborate on why the previous ecm nerfs took away the common scorpion use as a ‘fleet doctrine’. the Reason was because it was suddenly Counter-able, and if the enemy Saw a bunch of scorpions on the opposing side, they would fit eccm accordingly, and then suddenly the scorpion fleets effectiveness was dramatically diminished. doesn’t mean the fleet couldn’t work, it just meant that there was something else that probly would work Better. that’s called balance + meta shift. it happens, when kings on a hill are nerfed properly.

the OP DID spend a full (large) paragraph pointing out that he didn’t want to fit the counter, for various reasons, all understandable, but in the end, if you don’t want to fit the counter, then you cant really complain about the consequences, imo. fit the counter, and use the right script, and the pain will be less. unless your 1 v 5 +. then the pain is guna be the same; dead ship. the complaint isn’t dying, I kno, but it IS about not killing something. well, fit the counter(s) man!

Removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thank you.

LOL Seems anyone can post 5 points lists … and this list has more words that yours

  • Thusly I “Taunt” you
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Electronic warfare has a category - it does not contain neuts. - It does have damps, webs, target painters, scram , interdiction and much more.

A lot of the time I’m a solo player and I think lots of things are a “bad thing for groups”

  • Drones are obviously a solo tool and bad for groups assist should be removed.
  • Nosferatu are obviously a solo tool - it takes from your opponent and gives back to the user - no use in a fleet situation they should not work if you are in a fleet.

In trying to justify removal of a whole class of ship from solo play because you “think its a bad thing” does not pass muster - Did you stop to think it may be a good thing for solo players ?