Agreed (or not) but I don’t want this convo derailed… the issue is, ECM “fix” is BS. I’ve tried to offer alternatives but they have fallen on deaf ears.
I’m sorry to say people, I think this “fix” is here to stay…
@SsjGhost highlighting the sentence of who you want to quote, then clicking on the quote button above it, will place a quote in here.
On your post after you make it, you’ll see a small pencil icon, that is your edit post button. just thought id help you out.
1 Like
Asking for feedback is just that - asking for feedback about the changes.
It’s not asking “what should we have done instead,” which isn’t at all helpful.
Why do you say they’ve fallen on deaf ears? I read them. All of them. I’ve engaged you in conversation back and forth about them. That’s the opposite of falling on deaf ears. If they’d fallen on deaf ears, you’d have made one post, it would have been ignored and that’s that.
The point would be to stop them locking everyone else.
@Brisc_Rubal please… I don’t mean literally and yes, you have answered me.
When I say “fallen on deaf ears” I mean the point of the conversation has been lost/ignored.
I can reply to any of any post with the word “dog” and technically I have replied… have I listened?
Don’t split hairs… we know none of this matters and sorry if I seem at a loose end but I have put forward (and tried to be very objective while facilitating) to both sides of the argument and you have not, replying to my suggestions with the same rhetoric.
It’s ok, I get ECM is now ■■■■■■ for solo and small gang… I just wish someone had the balls to tell me I needed to grease up my bumhole before I was going to be ■■■■■■.
o7
I would be wasting my time if it didn’t matter. It does matter.
… right
look, I’m not going to get into an internet space-laser forum argument… that is seriously nerdy!
I just wish, if a change was being made, people would be honest. plenty of work-around’s and solutions have been proposed in this thread that would have avoided much of this forum BS and they have all been met with “this is how it is; deal with it”.
Seriously, if NS don’t want ECM, draw a hard-line and just remove it form the game and deal with the fallout… i reckon it would be a damn site easier than this…
2 Likes
You’re playing EVE. Too late on the nerdy thing.
I don’t see anybody being dishonest.
That’s because the change has already been made. The issue now isn’t whether to make the change, it’s how to address the issues that resulted from the change. So that’s what I asked for folks for - feedback on the changes and how to make these ships better post-change - not their opinions on what should have been done instead.
This isn’t a NS vs. HS vs. whatever issue. Removing it completely from the game could have been done, but it wasn’t. So we now have the existing meta, and the point is now to discuss what, if anything, should be changed to make that meta work.
@Brisc_Rubal I’m taking it out on you a bit and that’s unfair… you have your own agenda but unfortunately, you are CSM and with that comes the wrath of the EvE community… it just so happens you also seem to be numb to the majority of the suggestions in this thread.
It’s nothing personal man, I know you have “X” job to do as CSM, but try and see it from the other side. I know you get ■■■■ from trolls but sorry, you’re CSM, “deal with it” as they say 
All I’m saying is don’t try and spin ■■■■ one way or the other… this community (for the most part) will see through it and I myself (while not the most elite PVP, girl on girl, no refunds) action orientated player, have at least tried to engage and the response has been the same as those just moaning about changes.
Just saying.
o7
I’m not numb to them. I’m reading them, passing them on. I don’t agree with all of them, but I still rep those positions because that’s what I’m supposed to do.
I’m dealing with it. At the same time, take your own advice - put yourself in the shoes of the guys getting jammed out and see if you can understand why they might want the mechanic changed.
(lol, thanks whoever told me how to quote!)
I have and feel my solution fixes that but this discussion is digressing.
Unfortunately for you you are the CSM member that is replying to comments in this thread and I think, regardless of opinion, people participating in this thread should remember that. I don’t for one moment think you ran for CSM or engaged in this thread for the sole purpose of having everyone’s anti-“fix” opinions thrust upon you. Genuinely, thank you for engaging and I appreciate this currently is not a nice place to be.
That said, you appear to have adopted a “computer says ‘no’” approach… be that result of the constant bashing or personal opinion… it is irrelevant. You are CSM and personally I do not think you have acted as a voice for the players in this thread.
I am also not saying I could do better… but them I am not CSM.
If you want to do anything, I would suggest scrolling through this thread and selecting a few people (not me, this isn’t an attempt at self promotion) to represent those the fix impacts and have an open discussion with CCP and/or represent their thoughts.
If you do that and things stay the same, the burden of responsibility can not be squared on your shoulders.
That’s it.
Edit: @Winston_Onzo 
Just wanna point out. I found at least 4 topics, within the past few months or year… talking about ecm needs changed.
Most of what im reading in each topic, all are voicing their opinion about the counters not working as intended. Zealot is a good example.
1 Like
linky please? im curious if they were legitimate instances, whereby a proper balance can be achieved, but isn’t; or it its people refusing to fit counters, or they were guna die anyways, or if they should’ve not taken the engagement in the first place. cuz you kno, sometimes ■■■■ just happens? feel me?
This is from the old forums just last year
There are counters to ECM, but they require the right ship set up ahead of time - unless you routinely carry around a Mobile Depot and can refit on the fly, there’s not much you can do about it.
The real issue is in small gang play - with my Kitsune, I can jam out four ships at a time, nearly perfectly, from 70k away. In small gang frigate warfare, this is deadly, because
A) I’m not even range for them to lock me, even if they aren’t jammed, and
B) with a small group of 4-5 people, I’ve just jammed out 80-100% of their DPS.That’s the reason people don’t like ECM - it’s perfect in large fights, where it impacts a smaller percentage of the enemy ships, and the enemy is more likely to have ECM of their own to counter act the impact. In small gang fights, it has a totally outsized impact in terms of force multiplication.
The concept of ECM is good. I think it’s the implementation that really needs to be looked at - even speaking as an ECM pilot, getting perma jammed just blows.
perhaps the kitsune needed a looking at, tho ive fiddled with it pyfa, and flown its t1 brother, they aren’t exactly brilliant things when fitted for max jams. I mean, sneeze at it and it poofs
Feedback is basically:
You killed it in small fights (imo most fights without logi’s), without giving anything in return… but it has been sad thousand times over…
So question is do you wont to fix the ECM or do you seek some buffs to ECM ships which would make ECM pilots shut up…
I still believe that redoing entire system would be way easier then trying to balance those ships. Simpler the system the better. I would lean towards nonrandom system based on this formula:
- (jammer strength) - (sensor strength) = jam duration in seconds
- jamm always lands and brakes all locks
It would require tweaking of the sensor strength on some ships but now you can easily control how each ship would be affected by ECM, some can be completely immune even to strongest ECM, on some it would just work like bursts, armor logis can be more resilient to allow them finish repair cycle and you can also ensure that no ship can be perma jammed.
All sensor support modules would have still their impact perhaps even greater.
3 Likes
yet another example of something that would have been better than what was implemented.^^
1 Like