Dev Blog: October Balance Pass!

no… jams land and miss at about the same rate slightly skewed towards missing on larger and more advanced ships. again the balance here is fine

however as human beings you will remember the negatives far more so you will feel like you’re always jammed or your jams never land

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That is kinda not true because who uses ECM and then complains about it ? Falcon Pilots ? Scorpion Pilots ? the only people I can imagine doing that are new players that have joined a corp that has stuck them in a griffin and so they sit there on the edge of a battle trying to jam the other fleets guardians.

And this patch will not affect that at all.

You misunderstand then.

ECM resistance, in theory, would be a percentage. Lets say you have Sensor Compensation IV that matches the hull you are flying. You don’t have a Sensor Booster, but you do have a Signal Amplifier in the low. Your ECM resistance might be 30% (if you get 5% per level of Sensor Comp, and 10% for the Sig Amp).

This would not reduce the chance to be jammed, but it would instead reduce the effective optimal of the ECM targeting you. The ship that once had 100% jam change against you at range is now jamming you into falloff, giving you a chance to keep your electronic systems intact.

on that note, lets call it ‘ECM hardening’ not resistance. :smiley:

… very few because most either accept this or move on to using damps

however there have still been many threads made about ecm needing a buff and at fanfest I think it was two years ago during a QA fozzi admitted that there was poor feelings on both sides.

FFS the second sentence in the dev blog under ECM is

“As an ECM user the system doesn’t feel great either when you get unlucky and miss a lot of jams.”

yes that is one of the problems others have pointed out about the change in this very thread

… again that doesn’t make sense name wise and no other mechanic in the game does that. all other E-war resistances simply reduce the effectiveness of the E-war not reduce its optimal so it would not help them to get closer

the general idea (I think) of forcing ECM ships closer isn’t a bad idea if their tanks are also buffed

Tracking disruptors do it to turrets, they reduce optimal and thus by extension falloff, unless specifically scripted for tracking only.

but that’s a targeted module applied to the enemy ship not something applied to your own ship

I am taking the energy neutralizer ‘resistance’ idea from cap batteries, and applying the percentage (however you end up calculating it) to reduce the effective optimal on ECM targeting you.

This forces the ECM pilot to make a decision whether to increase the strength of their ECM, or the range (using rigs as an obvious example). This adds an opportunity cost, a decision to be made; generally good things when it comes to game design.

This also does not penalize the defender that chooses to fit modules to their ship to counter ECM, at the cost of other modules. Or those that train Sensor Compensation at the expense of other skills. The ECM ‘hardening’ stat would be in addition to the stronger sensors, a bonus.

fyi all, ecm did not used to have a falloff. that is one of the previous nerfs.

the former counter (before sebo buff) was a dedicated eccm module. it did nothing beyond boost the host ships sensor strength. it was very hard on cpu, and had a heavier cap usage than the current sebo iteration.

ecm has been nerfed several times in the past, always in favor of the target and to the detriment of the jammer. the falloff was added as an olive branch to jammer pilots who were pissed to see the base optimal nerfed at the time. previous nerfs were arguably more deserved. as time has passed, and nerf hammers dropped, ecm has seen less and less use overall. used to be, the only time you Ever saw a tengu in proper large fleet fights, was as an armor tanked ecm doctrine. since t3c nerfs, this practically halted entirely.

I cant tell you all how bad the rage USED to be about ecm, suffice to say, it USED to be far more oppressive, and even then, it was common to see the response: HTFU. now, that doesn’t seem to be swung around as much, but tbh, if ever ive seen a valid instance to use the term, I think everyone that is particularly upset about ecm in its current state; they should consider the HTFU method and fit the counter and train the compensation skills (<<also added to help pilots counter ecm) and look into fleet boosts that harden your sensor strength, and also look into remote sebo if you have friends, as its more effective than the local sebo. together, they stack incredibly well, and you can literally RUIN a jammers day with proper use. please remember, ecm does ZERO dmg. it Only stops you from inflicting your will on another. if a person finds it unfun that they can not inflict harm on another, perhaps they should consider the feelings they are trying to inflict on their target while they are jammed, and have lots of time to think about what they are doing. here you are, trying to kill someone’s ship, sending them to build another, spend isk/time etc. a lot of ppl don’t find that as fun as jamming YOU so they can stay alive. all this talk about feelings is really driving me nuts tbh.

ps, fozzieclaws could use 1 less turret hardpoint in exchange for 1-2 missile hardpoints. if combat ceptors as a whole are still too fast, then slightly their agility for >2sec align and bring the other cepters to <2sec capability. its quite simple to balance things, if that was the Real Goal here.

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even if you did this it only helps a bit in solo and very small gang. otherwise you are simply better fitting damps to everything rather than the sebo or just bring one dedicated damp ship and free up the mid on the rest of your fleet

while I understand this is mostly a joke and the rest of your points help to prove my earlier point that people on the other side are just as upset about ecm the “feelings” is extremely relevant considering it is the main concern with this change.

im joking yea, but its a semi-serious point. I mean, if FEELINGS is the primary concern here, then lets consider EVERYONE’s feelings. tis all im saying :wink:

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lol yeah but its more about when both sides commonly feel frustration and “this is not fun” you have a game design problem.

now those two feeling can be used well in game design if they lead to a moment where you feel accomplished or that you overcame something.

but with ecm since you have no real control of it the best you feel is “finaly” or “about time”

man there are countless examples, running the full gamut of both pvp and pve where you could say the same, throughout this game tbh, and it would be at least somewhat true. skill training much, ie?

oh that’s right, skill injectors ‘fixed’ this right? :roll_eyes:

aye^^edited to reflect that, and to reinforce my points about how they ‘fix’ 1 thing and break a dozen

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skill training is rather different though it probably gives the same feeling to younger players. however you can now just bypass it by working hard. either mining, ratting, relic hunting or PI to by an injector.

I cant really think of another example that even comes close to ecm in eve

also as for HTFU you don’t see it as much because some ISDs started removing comments calling them “personnel attacks” if you haven’t noticed the EULA changes over the past few years CCP no longer believes in that sort of mentality

try shooting a bastioned marauder with a cargohold full of charges. its maddening, until they finally run out of charges, or you get tanky neuts on grid. local tank tengus and perhaps t3’s in general now, <3vs<3 or similar

in fact, imagine you are shooting into the wrong resist hole and your ship is limited to only 1-2 dmg types. if the target is tanking the right dmg types and your shooting the wrong ones, gl Feeling Good about the engagement.

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except the loki all t3 have become rather crap the tengue and prot being the worst.

killing a golem comes with a huge sense of accomplishment knowing you managed to break its reps or your small fleet managed to survive against it. the general 2b+ km also doesn’t hurt

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sentries work exceptionally well vs ecm boats, whether they land a jam or not, and smartbombs are incredible vs small AND big swarms of ecm drones.

point being, you don’t even Have to fit the counters, ecm and their respective hull bonused ships have so many built in drawbacks you can exploit if one only a) knows and b) trys

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however you do feel good knowing you are hitting a hole or are tanking against a resist. and you don’t feel cheated because such a situation was in no way up to rng but 100% down to the pilots and their choices

sentries don’t help you if they were not told to shoot it before you were jammed

yes I have pointed it out in this thread before as well. there is no balance issue with ecm

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