If they never fly to null then lack of nullification cant hurt them. And it means the market has less demand so lower ship prices especially with null players selling them. That’s before any future buff once they aren’t used enough.
That one was a no brainer any active Eve player should have been able to answer.
Claws fly in null sec all the time until now. That’s their area of best usage after all. Also: Lower usage because of obsoletion leads to few people buying useless cheap ships that eventually need to get buffed again because no one uses them – that is supposed to be “benefiting most people”? Come on, Nevyn.
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Your the one who tried to spin it as somehow being an issue for anyone not in null. Not I.
For anyone outside of null it is a benefit, even if tiny. And their use outside of null is still as strong as it ever was. So they aren’t obsolete anywhere but null.
How can it be a benefit? Fewer people buy the ships because fewer people use them. The benefit that you see is outweighed by that.
Use outside of null sec? Which? Look at the killboards. No one uses Claws outside of Null sec. Today I found a handful of Claws dying in low sec to smartbombing, aka travel ceptor. That role will be taken over by the tankier Stiletto now. And a couple of whoring here and there in high sec and low sec. What other roles are there for Combat Ceptors that are not done better by AF, EAF, CD? None.
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absusrd on its face for obvious reasons. only Nevyn or arrendis would try to defend you on this. not even 6 ppl. just 2. that’s if we are going with your premise that theres only 6 of us calling this pass a bunch of junk. do a forum cta to all your muppet underlings and just deluge yourself with likes. tis the only way you can drown out the Real protesters here. everytime you post, you add to your own hypocrisy/contradictions. I was encouraging you before, why stop now? keep it up bruh. keep it up.
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So…
No one uses them at present while they are nullified…
Therefore it’s at worst irrelevant that they lose nullification.
And at best they get a price drop and a potential future buff.
So yeah. To everyone outside of null it is a benefit as price may encourage more use outside of null.
Am I claiming this is a great benefit… No.
Do I believe anchored bubbles should be removed so as to allow roaming combat fleets far easier in null… (And remove the need for most ships to be nullified to start with). Yes.
And do I believe that if bubbles aren’t removed that we should increase the number of nullified ships… Yes.
But you are tilting at a windmill with this particular argument you are trying to make here.
No one outside of null sec because there are better options for low and high sec. Now they are going to lose the reason why they are being used in Null sec, which means that actually no one will use them.
I would not say that we need more nullified ships. The ceptors alone make bubbles obsolete outside dedicated fleet PVP use (as it is supposed to be) instead of securing your dead end system. That allows other non-nullified ships be usable in null sec without changing other ships or mechanics at all.
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This is a “balance” patch of contradictions.
ECM, a game mechanic that works fine, is being broken.
The reason for this is because of people’s feelings, but we are told to HTFU about it.
Likewise, interceptor nullification is being removed because of how people feel about defending against it, not because of a broken risk/reward balance.
Again, we’re told that defender feelings matter, but HTFU.
We are told that doing a more thorough overhaul of ECM is outside the realm of possibility for budget reasons, but don’t worry they will do precisely that someday. Just not now. But in the meanwhile, it can’t stay as a tried and true system, but has to be broken “just to see what happens”.
Then they say, “trust us”.
No.
I don’t trust you.
I don’t trust game designers when they say they’ll break something for the hell of it, then maybe they might change their minds if enough subs drop. I don’t trust game designers that say they have enough game budget to gratuitously break random things but they don’t have the budget to fix them. I don’t trust a game designer that actually comes to a fairly self-aware conclusion that nullsec is too easily making too much money, but then decides that unattended roadblocks need to be more powerful by removing 1/3 of the ships that can bypass them.
(I also don’t trust a game designer that specifically says “We are looking at some small buffs to fitting and tank for ECM ships with this release” then conveniently forgets to do precisely that with this release.)
CCP’s actions are not lining up credibly with any of their conclusions. That’s why I don’t trust them. And that’s a problem because CCP doesn’t sell a video game. It sells a subscription. That subscription is a contract of trust - I subscribe because I trust that CCP will continue to upkeep and develop a game that is fun and unique. If I don’t trust them, I don’t subscribe.
Likewise, I don’t need to trust anybody if I buy a copy of say Diablo 2. If I’m going to play that game, I can play that game and never have to worry about a third party changing it into something I don’t like. That purchase is static. An MMO subscription is not.
So when they say they don’t have the budget or resources to fix something, that can be something of concern. When they say they don’t have the budget to fix something they are hell-bent on breaking, that’s a red flag. It also leaves open the possibility of them turning around in the future and saying they can’t fix the problems because of the dropped subs they themselves caused. And that’s even if they admit they made a mistake.
There’s still the problem of time. With the devs working feverishly to finish the structures development, there may not be time to revisit this for years. It’s one thing to have a problem you’d like to have looked at (insert your personal pet peeve here). It’s a whole other thing to intentionally break things then run off and leave it like a hit-and-run car accident. It’s terribly irresponsible and highly damaging to player trust.
There is also no such thing as a “rollback”. Even if they decide they made a mistake and change ECM back to the way it works presently, the game has progressed in the meantime. Industrial ships died because ECM no longer broke the lock of their tackler. Fleet fights happened, ECM may or may not even get used, ships blow up. Nullsec crabbing will get exponentially safer. Additional isk floods the markets. Territory gets taken or lost. Actions happen that don’t get rolled back when CCP announces “Whoops, my bad”.
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If you’re here to represent all the players, do you genuinely think the only people who disagree with you are “six guys” and “a dingleberry hanging out of your butt?” Or are opposing views not as worthwhile for you to represent?
Either way, we’ve certainly heard your view over and over: the changes are great for you and yours, and those who disagree are simply wrong. Would have been nice to hear from other CSM members as well, but thanks at least for taking the time.
If CCP is reading this thread also, can you (CCP) please bear in mind that the current CSM actively represents only one part of the player base, and that their views on changes seem to reflect their own interests and those of their alliance. That’s not to say they should be ignored - simply that their wide-eyed declarations “on behalf of all the players” should be viewed with appropriate cynicism.
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I could not agree more with this well written, well thought out and ENTIRELY ACCURATE post. I also do not trust CCP, I feel that your devs need a better PO, to manage what they are doing, as it seems to be uncoordinated and almost random.
This balance pass is a waste of time and resources. This balance pass serves very well to make the larger entities more powerful (and richer), and the smaller entities weaker than they are already (and poorer). I would VERY MUCH like to know is the goal of CCP to usher in another BOB entity?
Im sure we could easily ask players what is broken in the game, and anyone who has been playing any length of time, could easily come up with a list, and that list has probably been the same for SEVERAL YEARS.
I truly believe that the “CSM” do not represent ALL players, they have agendas which are bias to one side or another, and it simply is unfair to rely on these people as reliable sources.
CCP has completely lost its credibility in my opinion, you lack neutrality, I believe the only way to recover from this is to remove the CSM entirely and actually have a team WITHIN CCP that has only three goals:
- remain neutral at all costs
- Look at the game in detail and seek out and fix ALL OUTSTANDING BUGS (some of which have existed for years).
- go through all promised / advertised changes (e.g. shield slaves), and;
-Confirm whether a promised change is still applicable or not
-Confirm when it will happen.
I would very much like to hear CCP’s thoughts on this.
{post count 2519 - responses from CCP = 0)
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They benefit folks in WHa as well as null sec, obviously and they were niche changes that won’t impact most players. It doesn’t hurt you if it doesn’t apply to you. ECM helps everybody as does the Damavik change.
Not that hard, guys. Stop hurfing.
I value everybody’s opinions, even if I disagree with them.
The demavik is weaker now, there are now no fits that don’t need atleast one fitting rig and most need all three.
-I retract that, there is exactly one fit and it’s weaker than it was before the change
That rings a bit hollow when views you don’t like are dismissed as “six guys” and someone “hanging out of my butt.”
I’d say that’s pretty contemptuous of opinions you disagree with. And given your attitude towards those opinions, I doubt your claim to represent all “the players.”
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Opinions can be valued without valuing the person giving them.
Especially when most of the posts by the last mentioned poster have been character attacks. Not reasoned opinions
then tells everyone to stop hurfing.
@Nevyn_Auscent im not here attacking character. ive consistently attacked absurdities, regularly, as they are blurted out by a certain csm and his handful of supporters. I can actually say Handful and mean it accurately, as the no votes heavily outweigh the yea’s here. read the full thread if your skeptical. plenty of constructive criticism, and reasoning behind all of it. its not me that drug us down to dingleberries and hemmohroids.
the only Reason I came here was to rebuff the champions of this change, as it was a sham of a debate for the first 1k posts; with brisc playing some pretty heavy Spin to keep the crowd volume down. things like ‘no counters to ecm’ and other garbage were being thrown around at that time. since context matters supposedly. now we’ve progressed into arguing who benefits more from these changes, and oh look at that! brisc and comp are telling us its actually a buff to ppl who don’t use the bonuses or mechanics being cucked up! and admitting it Is a buff for ns, but only a small one. uhuh. ok. you guys keep it up. pretty soon you’ll be fitting sebo’s to your machariel instead of damps. too funny.
Tracking disrupters only affect weapons and I would like very much for ECM and damps to only affect weapons but I have no suggestion as to how you would do that. It’s to do with the simple way that modules work, you target an object, you activate module on target, anything that affects targeting affects a very wide range of modules where as tracking disruption doesn’t even affect all weapon systems, a different module is needed for missiles. Ideally you should be able to disrupt most modules with something and that should be evenly spread between the different types of ewar and perhaps leave targeting alone as not being able to target things is the problem. Maybe that does count as a suggestion but it is quite a fundamental upheaval of the way things work in this game I’m not sure I would bet on it being without difficulty.
After you posted a thousand times in this thread the nonsense had become just more obvious, that’s all.
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Yes, WH is absolutely thrilled with “Removed reduction to mass”
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Being a maxed out ECM pilot in a Falcon I wonder if CCP will give us the option to get out skill points back from this … I personally only use the falcon when a team member gets into a pickle and needs to help to escape … If I jam out 3-4 ships then I might as YOLO my falcon now with the new changes. With the amount of Super bombs the get dropped and titans these days not sure why ECM is that much of an issue and I think it was working as designed before the patch … perhaps to strong in some scenarios but the new changes as described simply suck.
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