Dev Blog: October Balance Pass!

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(Winston Onzo) #3107

Based on the Changes and buffs, what USEFUL feedback can you give to help make the changes better?
not “change it back”, or “it’s too broke to fix” Adapt to the changes, and figure out how to make them better. how hard is that for you to grasp.


(BIade Runner) #3108

I adapted, aka i removed all Caldari ships/EWAR related stuff from training queue and extracted the ECM skills already trained :wink:

Using intensive capacitor neutralizing in small engagements is now much more effective, so the Amarr/Blood line of ships had been skill maxed.

And i am not the only one who got “adapted” to a bad game design change… Falcon prices dropped a lot and that fact also suggest that many others quit using it.

If the purpose of the changes to ECM was to render it useless in 1vs1 and most small scale engagement scenarios, and making caldari EWAR ships targets for shooting practice in all other types of fights, then you have “mission accomplished”
By removing “ECM tanking” and reducing ships sig radius by few percents was proven a total lack of clues about fixing them back, as is very unlikely that falcons will start very soon to be decent speed tankers :sweat_smile:


(Sakura Hoshizora) #3109

That’s not what Brisc wrote ages ago.

The “If it doesn’t work it will be rolled” back Version was always on the table.

And it does not work.

Constructive feedback was already given multiple times. You want the ECM ships to have survivability after the ECM tank was removed?

Give them all 20% shield resist as ship bonus and bonus to shield extenders/shield boosters per ship skill level.


(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #3110

If they are using Agile development it is extremely unlikely they would ever roll something back unless it actually broke the entire game. Whenever they claim ‘rollback’, take it with a big enough pinch of salt it’d kill Jabba the Hutt.

Agile will work fine on tweak changes like individual hull or module balance changes. It isn’t as suitable for larger mechanics changes. That’s my professional opinion from working with it.

The change is working as intended, i.e. it removes solo ECM, and reduces the effectiveness of ECM. Of course, it didn’t change the disliked RNG mechanic but hey, let’s ignore that was used as the reasoning for the change.

Brisc whines (to use his own chosen depiction of those commenting here) that people should stop complaining. It’s true that the change is in game, and won’t be rolled back.

However it’s also true that those affected should be free to push for a future change that puts ECM back in a good place for everyone, including solo hunters. Perhaps changing the RNG nature of ECM would be a good approach. Simply telling those dissatisfied with the change to ‘stop whining’ is not acceptable.


(Khan Wrenth) #3111

It’s also not how it works.

This change was enacted because people complained about being on the receiving end of it. But it looks like it’s only complaining/whining if you go against what he personally wants. It’s like the difference between “freedom fighters” and “terrorists”. What label you use depends wholly on which end you want victorious.

If you liked the change and what it did for the game, you’re entitled to your opinion and vindication. If you don’t think the change worked, you’re whining and it’s done and over so get over it. After all, you can’t change something after it’s been changed. Things don’t change around here, except when they do.


(BIade Runner) #3112

The real reason for this change, pushed on fast forward, was not an urgent “re-balance” for a 15 years old game mechanic, but was actually intended as a quick fix for the coming of new abyssal 1 vs 1 instances.

They foresaw the problem of getting stuck in a stalemate because one or the both players involved can use ECM, so the devs decided that this kind of change will solve at least partial the issue (as you already saw there are still other scenarios when the stalemate can occur, and they need to fix it in a future patch).

My guess is that was not at any moment their intention to discuss and listen to any feedback because the scope of ECM mechanic change was not to balance ECM modules, but to make ECM to not interfere with their further development of Abyssal content.

So the nerfing of Caldari EWAR line of ships was just a collateral damage from a more important project :wink:


(Brisc Rubal) #3113

How does it not work? It’s doing exactly what it was supposed to do as far as I can tell.

This is not even remotely close to a top priority, however, so don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.

And no we’re back to the same three people talking to each other.


(Khan Wrenth) #3114

You know, that’s really amusing. Makes a lot of sense, even if it isn’t what really happened.


(mkint) #3115

(Ayanami Hedges) #3116

@CCP_Falcon
Please give me back the millions of SP invested to max the ECM skills & ships…

Removing the ecm from the game was the most stupid solution brough to a problem regardless the context. Instead of changing the balance between defending str vs the attacking ECM str, you guys removed the most fun thing from the game for some players.

For the patch it says “now the jammed target will have the chance to fightback”. Well the jamming target isn’t fit to fight anything anyway, the only thing he can do is to jam, so now we now need to give the jamming ship the chance to fight back aswell. The jammed target can fight back with no penalty on anything, while the jamming ship is the obvous primary for anything he is jamming and will be vaporised in seconds.

PS : Now ECM drones are more powerfull then full ECM falcon. The jamming falcon will be fough back with no penalty, scrambled immediately and wont be able to warp out even he has 100% jamm on his target. Now when you are jammed by a ship with ecm drones, you will have to target ecm drones 1 by 1 to kill them and be able to target the real ship owning the ecm drones :smiley: Excelent idea again !


(Geo Eclipse Oksaras) #3117

Still viable in small gang fleets or larger fleets, just not 1v1 like you all are begging for to come back… show up with a small fleet. While 3 ships are targeting and hitting the one ship you are ganking or going after, you have him jammed, so he can’t target and take them out only you, odds of you dying compared to him, minimal at best.

you don’t want your SP from the ECM, you can always extract them.


(techzer0) #3118

Did you ask for all the command ship sp?
Did you ask for all the titan sp?
Did you ask for all of the Super sp?

Every ship and many modules has been changed over time.
SP isn’t given back for balancing. You should be more concerned with adapting and less concerned with whining about some SP you won’t ever get back.


(BIade Runner) #3119

In the first place this change was made using as excuse the whining from people like you, unable to adapt to a 15 years old game mechanic: “Please nerf ECM, it make us feel bad and useless” :roll_eyes:

If is one bad thing about some EVE players, is that biggest whiners are projecting a lot on the forums about their inability to play, demanding game changes to be forced upon others… After that their whines was listened they come to preach about adaptation… Is plain hilarious, as in their warped thinking is the others who always need to adapt :crazy_face:


(Geo Eclipse Oksaras) #3120

So do you not believe that after 15 years, and mechanics that are that old in the game, should and need to be updated??

Hilmar himself said the graphics is from 2007 and other aspects of the game are from 2003. sometimes to update things, some things have to change. I don’t use ECM, so this never applied to me, but I do appreciate the fact i can now kill gurista’s who nonstop jam.

Just seems like no matter WHAT it is, people have to whine about changes made. Yes it messes with the playstyle of everyone, but in the long run I think most of the changes happening will be for the better of the game. Isn’t that what everybody really wants, the game to keep lasting another 15 years?? It cannot be the same 15 year old mechanics to go forward another 15 years.


(BIade Runner) #3121

Even you don’t seems so convinced about your thin argumentation. EVE have it’s distinct “character”, if you change that fundamental characteristics, then will not be the same game anymore.

So changes made for the sake of change don’t stand up as a valid argument… ECM change was made in a rush, without a proper plan to overhaul Caldari EWAR ships. Was just a “let’s throw this and see how we can fix the mess in next months”. That is not the proper way to balance game mechanics, ever.

So you can throw on the plate how many post-factum rationalizations you want, is not gone change the obvious fact that was a cursory improvisation, made to meet the anti-stalemate mechanics from new abyssal duel arenas.


(techzer0) #3122

I never asked for this change. I just like it.

Do you mean people like me that actually play the game or people like you that have a couple shuttle deaths.
You do understand that ECM does nothing to a shuttles offensive capabilities right?

@Biade_Runner Why are you whining so much when you don’t even use ECM and it hasn’t been used on you…ever?

I would think that people who trained for titan so they could AOE several AU through a cyno are the biggest losers from balancing updates. But you think it is you with your shuttle skills? How many SP could you have anyway? You only started 5 months ago…and with the way you whine i’ll bet you don’t buy skill injectors.


(Imam) #3123

Yeah, let’s nerf ECM bun not explain all the ramifications… ty CCP.
As an ECM pilot this is ■■■■.

  1. ECM is chance based (you miss, you die)
  2. There is ECCM for protection (more miss , more me dying).
  3. ECM ships are paper thin ( killed by sneezing).
  4. ECM is PRIMARY… (see #1)

The way I see it now… I just pour gasoline on me, and everyone will light up a match and set me on fire.
Before at least I could blow over that match.


(Imam) #3124

I believe no one enters here with a main character… so what you see is an alt (like myself).


(techzer0) #3125

I am aware.
Iowa Banshee taught me that it is okay to attack someone based on their alt killboard stats.


(Iowa Banshee) #3126

From the the other guy’s viewpoint

While your ONE SHIP is targeting and hitting the ship you are going after, you have his TWO FRIENDS jammed, so they can’t target and take YOU out, the odds of you dying compared to him, WERE reasonable but not guaranteed considering the chances of a missed jam.

  • NOW - You have ZERO CHANCE in this fight because the 2 ecm modules that would give you a chance in this fight still allow the enemy to attack you and just don’t work anymore.