You have no ■■■■■■■ clue do you ?
3 Likes
Moving past the hot button ECM/HIC topics, I want to make two pleas for other ships changed in this patch.
First, combat ceptors. Removing interdiction nullification from them is a very welcome change, and is definitely a good idea. However, it does reduce the overall power level of these ships, and they weren’t OP in solo and small gang use. As such, I think they ought to get some kind of counterbalancing buff that simply wouldn’t be useful in fleets. I’m partial to the idea of a scram (but not point) range bonus or a MWD-only inertia reduction (i.e. MWD agility same as non-MWD), myself, but there’s plenty of options, point being we need to be careful to not accidentally make these ships junk for non-fleet use while we’re trying to balance their fleet use. Without nullification they feel to me like they lack a clear distinction from assault frigates.
Second, the Damavik. A 3rd mid slot is definitely great, don’t get me wrong, but it should simply be added wholesale rather than removing a low slot. The Damavik currently has only 9 total slots compared to the standard T1 frigate allotment of 10, and there’s no particular reason it has to remain deprived in this way given its current underpowered state. The Vedmak gets the full 14 slots that a T1 cruiser is supposed to get, so there’s no requirement to give trig ships less slots. Moving a low to a mid will help some, but it needs those lows too, 3 is not enough. Moving the slot is an improvement, but it’s a sidegrade-type improvement when the ship needs a straight upgrade. (Also, please add precursor weapon rigs or give it a full 10% range bonus, the range is not quite enough to reach out to point range, which kinda sucks.)
2 Likes
That’s a really good non-answer. Exactly the sort of thing one would expect from a real-life politician. I regret voting for you.
6 Likes
On top of making rolling normal wormholes more difficult, the HIC change completely removes the only way to roll frigate wormholes. Just something to keep in mind: that this change will remove the only counterplay around frigate wormholes.
5 Likes
It also allows the use of defensive bubbles on targets. For example, an entosising ship could be sitting in an anchored large T2 bubble, which would put it outside of the first falloff interval of small artillery fired from outside the bubble. That gives it more of a chance to survive the initial volley, and remote (or local) repairs to save it.
As for the Log-Off Timer… it’d make an artyceptor fleet more vulnerable and less mobile after a hit, sure, but it’s really just the same as the weapons’ timer. It just means bouncing for 15 minutes instead of 1.
I think if the idea of bubble-immunity has to be retained, it should probably have some serious interactions. There’s a few I can think of, but none are perfect.
Option 1: Align time. This kinda kills travelceptors, though.
Option 2: Weapon/Targeting interactions. Maybe similar to a Warp Core Stabilizer, where having one fitted inflicts a significant penalty to targeting range. Or maybe it increases the PG requirements of weapons. This hurts the ability to use it as a strike platform in any capacity, mind you.
Option 3: Variety. This is the one that I think might work best. Different drawbacks for different variations. One version that gives immunity but eliminates low align time, one version that gives immunity but cripples weapons’ fire. Build your interceptors for the role they’re intended to do, but if you want to be able to kill something, you have to accept the risks.
2 Likes
In regards to ECM - can there be a script that reverses everything? (shipwide all ecm make just that ship untargetable)?
To me the funniest part of pvp is to deny fights. Just sit there in a falcon and deny a fight. Just uncloaking a falcon is sometimes enough to let pvp players find another target. You just feel their salty thoughts…
Guy in cynabal runs into procurer. Usually procurer gets very dead. Then falcon warps in and jams cyna. That’s like really funny. It’s like taking a toy from a big pitbull that suddenly cannot bite back. Ofc a falcon cannot kill the opponent. Nor could the procurer.
So can denying fights still be a viable pvp alternative? Keep ecm also possible for the ship itself? Or at least break locks?
4 Likes
Did you know “warp to 0” started as some weird exploit involving hundreds of bookmarks? But it became an integral part of living in nullsec, so CCP officially added it as a feature.
Now imagine they decide to remove “warp to 0” and force everyone to use hundreds of bookmarks again to get around their own space. Not for a good reason, just out of laziness to fix some unrelated bug. That’s about the same impact this has on wormholes for no good reason.
13 Likes
Which means I can only really use a Nereus. Sorry all I see is miners/haulers being further trodden on. Honestly whoever thought this up needs clubbing with a lifesize mammoth (ship I mean altho the animal would do at a pinch).
1 Like
Im confused as to the consequences of the HIC changes. can someone explain why removing the perfect agility and 8k m/s ability is a bad thing?
HIC’s can still roll whs right? What did I miss?
The ewar changes seem interesting, not sure if it will work but seems, at least at first glance or thought, that those changes may help solo players and hurt blops widow users …
The Ceptor changes, idk… I’m at least thankful you left one class of ceptor alone, the other getting a combat buff, seems like a fair trade. But fitting restrictions or variations from class ceptor may not appease already established roles or doctrines, fits.
1 Like
You know what you should do???
You should say “hey guys!! we are getting rid of 500mwd hics in october, but cuz we love you wormholers. We are going to add a new module/rig that does the same thing so we dont ROYALLY ■■■■ you guys over…”
5 Likes
I have a proposal for a solution for WH space occupiers to be able to still roll holes with consistency. Introduce a module that has the expressed purpose of increasing mass. This module would be designed to fit onto a destroyer, and would be a highslot module called “Higgs Field Generator”. It would be an active module that would increase a ship’s mass by 200%, and multiple could be online at once. The point of the module is to work in conjunction with a 10mn AB on the destroyer to push the ships mass pretty high. 4 of the modules activated in conjunction with a 10mn ab would yield a mass of about 187 million on a confessor (highest base mass T3D). This would allow the dessie to go through with a mass of 1.8 mil, then come home and roll with 187 mil (I did the math including stacking penalty).
There are a few possible balance issues, namely with battleship rollers. To prevent issues with this, I would recommend restricting the module to only frigates and dessies. Cruisers could fit 500mn prop mods and get capital mass which would be too powerful for rolling holes. T3Ds make the perfect platform for tactical hole rolling, thanks to the scan probe fitting bonuses. This module would also make it difficult to defend yourself in T3Ds, but that’s part of the tradeoff in EVE. If you want a ship to be really good at something, it has to be really bad at other things.
As far as fitting goes, The module would require 20cpu and 5 powergrid to fit. Cycle time of 10 seconds, and consumes 25 cap per cycle.
A final fit ship would look something like this:
[Confessor, *10mn roller]
Co-Processor II
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Vigor Compact Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Adaptive Nano Plating II
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Small Capacitor Booster II
Initiated Compact Warp Scrambler
Improved Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Higgs Field Generator
Higgs Field Generator
Higgs Field Generator
Higgs Field Generator
Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Thanks for the consideration, any suggestions for changes to mechanics of the module or stats are welcome and appreciated!
3 Likes
500mn 8k ms hic is stupid though, and not an intended side effect; id been meaning to get one tbh but the intended use is so niche i just havent bothered; imo theres just not much call for the 8k ms tackle
Bouncing for 15 min instead of 1 is a rather large change. While it would allow fleets to continue moving through the region (taking gates) the immunity to bubbles is gone, forcing engagements at gates if the defense was prepared. This seems to solve the issue of ‘a fleet that warps faster than any defensive fleet, crossing 3-4 systems to hit targets’.
While immunity up until the point of agression doesn’t help with regards to the entosis ship sititng in the T2 bubble for the initial volley, it does present a layer of complexity with regards to how much risk the claw fleet is willing to entertain as far as their warp in positioning.
I hear where the perspective about the oppression of claw fleets is coming from, but I don’t think nerfing their ability to be a strike platform is the right way. They should always be able to perform that one initial application, whether it be a suicide strike, or bouncing for 15 min. Following up on immunity suppression, how would it be any different from High sec gankers docking up their pods for 15 min, or different from jump fatigue?
1 Like
This entire patch is “unintended” collateral damage to a level that one needs to assume stupidity or malice. Jams on non combat ships are now worse than useless. Burst jams now do the opposite of what they are meant to. Spectrum breakers aren’t even remembered and may end up being used with burst jams to make them work the old way if ECM ever gets a buff out of this.
Oops, none of us intended this, we just happen to get an advange from it, OOPS.
1 Like
i dont get it, HICS can still roll whs though… lol. the MWD is what increases the mass, along with a higs rig… the bubbles still reduce mass yes?
They just dont have ceptor qualities when perma tackling you…
You clearly didnt understand that the problem is not increased mass. Infact we need to decrease mass so that we dont get stuck on the wrong side of the VOC hole.
A current rolling hic can decrease its mass to the weight of a shuttle. so the chances are pretty good that you dont get rolled of your home while jumping OUT. While jumping in you leave the bubbles alone, activate your oversized prop and get the mass of a battleship.
2 Likes
Jump fatigue isn’t dependent on weapons’ fire, and high-sec gankers lose their ships.
As a wormholer, we’ll manage. Adapt or die.
While I am bummed about being unable to bring my HIC through frig holes that may be more beneficial to overall balance. Cheap disposable rolling sigils that put 122 on the hole will be the new norm. Math will be vital and some sacrifices to Bob will need to be made.
2 Likes
Because the mass of the HIC can no longer be reduced by activating their bubbles, they can no longer traverse crit wormholes in relative safety. The nerf is not to the ability to collapse wormholes, it is a nerf to the ability to traverse them safely so they can be collapsed when jumping back home.
3 Likes
And alpha clones will ensure that non important characters end up on the wrong side if luck goes bad.
2 Likes