Dev Blog: October Balance Pass!

It is so terribly tempting to wipe this rather odd line of thought right off the table by pointing to the use of cynoceptors as penetration point but let’s not even though several very effective small to medium groups have been surprising rorquals that way for quite a while now.

If this line of thinking is to be the new reasonable, please do not be surprised if customers pop up with all sorts of interesting demands and references for analogies. I can just picture the freighter or orca pilot going batshit because he is completely unable to do anything while getting bumped by a machariel as that one employes a mechanic that functions well.

Doesn’t anybody at the CSM think things further through than change consequences? There’s multiple paths of effects beyond those here. There’s a few CCPians grinning. Not only does this devblog open a door towards change by analogy of other mmo mechanics, the foundation for it is remarkable.

Honestly, merely the comment of no real counter to ceptors is emberassing. The ECM “balance” is a classic of sneaking in something over the back of a few with a fixation.

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Refund the SP of the following skills:

  • Electronic Warfare
  • Signal Dispersion

Should be a total of 1792000 SP for players who fully invested on them.
Also consider refunding Graviton Physics, Heavy Interdiction Cruisers and Interceptors.

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About the interceptor changes I fully agree with:

Yup, the problem is not about claws or ceptors in general, but rather fozzie sov encourages agile fleets and how important bubbles play out in null meta game throughout the decade.
Eventually ppl will seek out the fastest ships that meanwhile compose the heaviest punch, after fozzieclaw there will be other fozziexxxxx.

Source of quote

I am very disappointed in the ECM changes. Not only has ECM become completely useless for 1v1 combat, but several ships like the Griffon Navy are now utterly worthless.

The fact is that it has always been possible to essentially become immune to ECM, or at least, make it vanishingly unlikely to land a jam against you, with the right modules. Even then, the random nature meant people had a chance. Furthermore, there was always the opportunity to run away, and if the jammer manages to both jam you down and tackle you while managing to break your tank, then frankly I feel they deserve the kill.

This seems very much like a capitulation to people who complain about ECM being strong while doing nothing to defend themselves against it. Yes, they will obviously claim that they don’t have room in their fittings to designate a single mid or low slot to a sensor boosting module, but that is the tradeoff they chose to make when fitting the ship, and I don’t see why CCP should be rewarding this intransigence.

On a similar line, why don’t we give all mining barges and exhumers 100,000 hull and 90% resists across the board because the people who fly them in highsec don’t want to pay attention to the game when mining or fit tank and whinge about being shot at?

Basically, this has made solo ECM utterly useless, since its use for solo combat is either to jam the other ship to prevent incoming fire and ewar, or jam the drones to accomplish the same, neither of which will work anymore. In small gangs, you have guaranteed that such ECM ships will die vastly faster than before due to a complete inability to negate incoming DPS, or be forced to quit the field repeatedly during the course of the engagement and be limited to breaking locks and running, which just makes the whole thing annoying for everyone involved.

Also: drones were never able to permajam someone anyway. Their jam strength is so low you’d need a half dozen ships worth of them to accomplish it on a single person, and the same number of combat drones would just destroy them in half the time.

I find it kind of amusing that you haven’t taken a bat to sensor damping, since you can use that to shrink a targets lock range to the point where they can’t shoot anyone, especially when you web them down, and even if they can get a lock on you (which takes forever), you can cycle a prop mod and get out of range to break the lock before slowing back down and resuming your work.

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Tbh, I don’t get the fuss about the HIC’s.

There’s a frighole that is meant to allow only frigsized and balanced as a “PAIN” to deal with (by total mass vs allowed mass).
You use an exploit to deal with them
Now said exploit will be fixed

I can’t see much wrong with it, apart from the fact that you might have gotten used to having an easymode Frighole closer… which is a fair point but not exactly what I would count as an argument.

What am I missing here? :frowning:

I mean, SCREW WORMHOLERS is kinda disappointing as a statement from CCP, especially without context on why it’s such a problem out of the sudden, but I really do not understand why it’s necessary to keep HIC’s the way they are either. Why is this change necessary? Why is it necessary to have it not changed?

The Ceptor-Nerf will likely do nothing except for other hulls getting much more prominent out of a sudden…
The ECM change is quite reasonable outside of 1vs1…

Oh and: I don’t really understand most of these changes. They do very little imho and kinda feel almost pointless.

The problem is simply that they are required to do large scale roaming throughout a region without getting camped in by bubbles, titans and supers at the first opportunity. Claws are one of the few (in my opinion only) method to roam around a heavily defended region and be able to inflict some damage to at least minimally counteract the massive industrial complex in that region.

If you look at the June MER (I choose that one because the war went into full swing afterwards and numbers went down as a result in July and August), Delve mined 14T, ratted 11T and produced 33T, but only 1.4T in losses were incurred in that month. That is completely out of proportion. The Forge at the same time mined 1.3T, ratted 450B (+some hundreds of billions in LP) and produced 33T ISK, but the region also created 2.6T in losses, nearly twice as much as Delve. And that’s in high sec for the most part.

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THEN WHY THE HELL WAS IT BEING PUSHED THROUGH WITHOUT A SOLUTION FOR ROLLING HICs???

GRRRR!

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Nullification wasn’t the issue with the Claw…it was its agility. What made them invincible was the fact they could fire and warp before being locked by all but the fastest of frigates. Interceptors should be scouts and fast tackle…not gunboats which the assault frigate is for.
They should be phased out the game if I’m honest.

I think this has been discussed in this thread but I just want to reiterate and say my piece.

I’ve invested in Caldari Interceptors, specifically flying the Raptor, and have used it mostly as a ‘taxi’ around New Eden. When I read the removal of interdiction nullification of certain interceptors I didn’t see the ‘balance’ of the change. All the remaining ships with interdiction nullification can still attain the sub 2-sec align time except for the Crow.

Please realize that only the Caldari suffers from this change and I suggest you re-visit which ships should have their nullification removed or think of a better way to deal with what you’ve implemented.

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I agree…the Crow is very out of whack on that front.

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CCP bending over and shafting Wormholers whilst at the same time being on their knees sucking null sec dick… AGAIN! Well done indeed!

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2 things. Firstly this is about “Verge of Collapse” aka crit holes, not frig holes. HICs with bubbles up are sub frigate mass which greatly reduces the chances of being rolled out of your chain when jumping out to close them on the way back.

Second There is no such thing as an “easymode Frighole closer”. Frigholes are a pain to close however you do it because of their mass re-gen.

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sorry, I’m an alien from Georgia… I do not know English… why is not it >>> ROGUE SWARM ALERT <<< on the server TQ ??? … again sorry…

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I had this idea:

what if you have 2 jamming ships that coordinate and swap their targets every cycle? That would mean that enemy has 10 seconds to lock and shoot at one of the jammers before he loses that lock and will be forced to shoot the 2nd. With

we hope to be able to increase jam strength to make ECM more consistent across the board.

i think jams will be as annoying as ever, if not more. Especially when something jams you from 70+km away.

The downside here is that in the short term, balance for ships focused on ECM may be a bit out of whack. We are looking at some small buffs to fitting and tank for ECM ships with this release to help them survive against return fire, and long term we hope to be able to increase jam strength to make ECM more consistent across the board. Your feedback will be critical in ironing out those changes going forward.

@CCP_Falcon how about moving ECM (and, while you are at it, other E-War modules, especially Target painters) to high slot? That will require the uniform choice of DPS vs Utility from pilots, instead of Utility vs Shield tank where the only reasonable fits of e-war ships are either armor tank or no tank. I do understand that this will require an overhaul of utility-high/mid/low slots on a lot of ships, but overall i think it’ll be better in the long run and the game will see a better variety of e-war being used on the field.

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Awful awful awful stuff CCP. This is the worst ‘balance’ pass I think i have seen in my 10 years of EVE.

As long as the CSM is stacked with null sec F1 monkeys it will ALWAYS push you in the direction of PROTECTING THEIR INTERESTS not whats best for the game. Which is pretty much is what this ‘balance’ pass does, protect 0.0 shills. (I dont even bother to vote anymore; ditch the CSM entirely is my advice. Its not working as a representative of the player base. Not even close.)

Worst? Hanging Wormhole people out to dry with the HIC changes. AWFUL CCP, AWFUL, and i dont even live in WHs.
ECM nerf has already been done years ago. Dont like it? Fit a sebo. Harden up.
Interdiction removal for combat ceptors is just meh. Game already leans towards who can bring the most numbers to any situation. Fozzie sov only made this worse. changing a doctrine or two wont change that.

The only thing good in this ‘balance’ is that extra midslot, the rest is just pandering to big groups in null sec.

I’m not mad CCP, I’m disappointed…

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what? Do not like when you are being shot?
ha ha ha…

MUPPET!

CSM was a mistake, and we are starting to see the results of it with these changes… Then again, who actually benefit from any of these changes except paranoid nullbears?

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@Steve_Ronuken - but Taunt in a normal MMO is a feature of Tank Classes… and em… ECM ships are not TANK class ships… So unless they make some bug changes to the base stats of ECM ships then I think this analogy is misleading.

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All that crap to shield goon rorquals from our FVBs and torpedoes.

welles

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