Can confirmed, more frustrating than getting jammed
keres moved at 3-5000 m/s and held me from about 30 with me not being able to lock anything further than maybe 10km, for more of a helpless feeling than jams.
Probably shouldâve been in the FAQ on the dev blog post.
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No, they donât. There are plenty of passive modules and gun types that donât require cap, so being capped at wonât always force you off grid or lock you down so you can do nothing. Neuts donât impact drones either. Cap boosters are common and exist for more than simply dealing with neuts, so itâs more likely your ship will have them even if you arenât planning on going up against a neuting ship. You can also receive cap from logi.
None of that happens with ECM. A successful ECM landing has zero counter. The only thing you can do is try to run away. There is no way to impact your opponent, and even planning ahead thereâs still the RNG chance that a jam lands no matter how good your ECCM or EWAR stats are.
This is even clearer when it comes to things like carriers vs. Griffins. A frigate should not be able to effectively neutralize the entire combat power of a capital ship, for example. That alone demonstrates how broken this is.
In the end, this is not a major change - all it does is give the guy getting jammed a chance to fight back against the guy jamming him. Thatâs it.
i heard that Fire and Forget missiles work well 1v1
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Not as well as being able to shoot back.
Pretty sure that counts as âshooting backâ
also really
carriers should never be roaming solo and should always have a support group. If in IRL carriers are part of something called a âBATTLE GROUPâ. This couldnât of been more evident during WWII, when a lone carrier or a lone bb was nuked by not having support of a battle group.
Seriously, the â â â â are you smoking??
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FOF missiles do not require target locks. Smartbombs donât require target locks.
There is also ECCM and skills that can be trained to reduce the likelyhood of jams landing in the first place.
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Ehhhh, letâs not even start looking at RL comparisons to EVE ships. If we do⌠yeah, thereâs just a huge amount that needs pointing out and saying âdammit, CCP, itâd be nice if you did this because holy crapâ.
Yes, IRL, capital ships (which include BBs) have support flotillas. Thatâs necessary. Itâs understood. In EVE⌠less so. Capitals usually have⌠other capitals. Itâd be lovely if there was a reason to have a single capital ship at the center of a battlegroup of subcaps as the structure of EVE fleets, but it just ainât so.
Youâve never heard of Griffins hitting ratting carriers? I find that hard to believe, given your alliance. This isnât IRL, so thereâs no point in bringing up those references.
And youâve made my point about shooting back. If fire and forget missiles are the obvious, easy counter to ECM, why doesnât everybody use them, thus negating the power of ECM frigates?
Wasnât ewar immunity removed some time ago from carriers? Now, itâs a problem? Maybe nerf SB next, frig sized hulls shouldnât be a threat to supers.
uhhhhh, your forgetting about subcap v subcap where someone drops a cyno and it becomes a race to get off grid or escalate. in which if you donât escalate the side with the cap generally wins.
Happens all the time in low sec and FW.
Iâm not saying itâs a problem. Iâm explaining a situation where I think itâs kind of goofy.
only goofy thing is randomness in it.
heâs shilling for the goons, what are YOU smoking for thinking thereâs a point in talking to him?
Iâm still waiting for you to find me in local, lol.
Donât even start, ive been on both sides and when hunting caps the first thing a FC says is âonce you jump BURN AWAY FROM THE CARRIER!!!â
Any compentent carrier/super pilot will recall his fighters the moment covert cyno is on grid and ether blap what shows on grid and redock fighters or redock fighters and lock the poor srubs that are on ZERO of him launch, alpha, recall. RINSE and REPEAT
sure, tell me where to find ya outside of alexâ rear end.
Iâm not saying that it doesnât happen, but itâs much more rare than simply having to roll a hole. And well, in case of HS static, getting left out is a much smaller issue than in case of being left in random system in WH space.
As for how to know when to jump the BS waiting outdoors back? A rolling BS with MWD on is slightly under 300 mass. A 100mn cruiser with higgs is 22 with AB off and 122 on. A hole goes to stage 2 at 50% and crits at 10%. 10% amounts to something like 270-360ish on 3k holes (yeah, 3k holes can be as large as 3500-3600 sometimes in high-class W-space).
So, if you start to roll a 3k hole, and the hole is not at half mass? You start throwing mass at it with BSes, and note the point at which half the mass is. With that you should be able to make a rough estimate at how much mass you can still throw at it safely. For example, if the hole went stage 2 at 1800, you leave a rolling battleship sitting outside at 2700 and start to crit it with 100mn cruisers. If the hole is already at half mass, you put the BS outside and start to crit it with 100mn cruisers.
If the hole goes crit when you go out (with AB on) with the cruiser, you can safely go back in with AB on to make sure that it closes when the BS comes back in. 2 * 122 = 244, which is less than 270. If it goes crit when you go back in with the cruiser, then you might want to go in with cruiser AB off and back with AB on to make sure the hole has less than BS mass left. 2 * 122 + 22 = 266, which is again less than 270, so the hole wonât collapse from that.
Which is the point of having the griffin.
Finally, you get something right.
And then you had to ruin it with that. Let me rework this to showcase, again, the staggering ignorance you broadcast when you post drivel like that.
âSensor boosters are common and exist for more than simply dealing with ECM, so itâs more likely your ship will have them even if you arenât planning on going up against a jamming ship. You can also receive remote SEBO from logi, as well as sensor hardening from command burstsâ.
First problem, warping to and fro is actually a very good counter since the jam attempt is 20 seconds long. When you land back on grid, the jamming ship might still be in the same cycle, or attempted another cycle on someone else, giving you twenty seconds where the jamming ship is effectively nothing to you.
Second problem, if you are EWARâd in other ways, thereâs typically no way to counter your opponent either, since the typical maneuverings you undertake will put you in a vastly more vulnerable position which might actually be the point to begin with. The adage about âoh you can pilot your way through itâ typically only works on a practical level in missions, not in PvP combat. Niche scenarios aside, damps and disruption are still taking you out of the fight. And they have quicker cycle times, so good luck warping back and forth to quickly shed the EWAR.
Third problem, the opposite is also true about jam chance. It doesnât matter how good your ECM skills are, you can and often do fail the jam attempt, leaving you âstuff out of luckâ for twenty seconds until you can make another attempt.
This is the second thing in the entire thread youâve been correct about. That is completely broken. But thatâs not a problem with ECM so much as itâs a problem with fighter mechanics. Saying that we need to invalidate thousands of combat scenarios with subcaps because a mechanic specifically tailored for capitals is not working well, is completely asinine. If adjustments need to be made, it needs to be on how ECM interacts with fighter groups, not with how ECM interacts with subcaps.
And yes, it is a major change, because it threatens to invalidate ECM as a force on the battlefield in general (jamming is already primary, but now you can still shoot it even if it jams you). It also threatens to further invalidate the standup structure targeted ECM which has been mentioned numerous times in this thread (if this has been addressed I havenât seen it and apologize in advance), as well as invalidating the Caldari Black Ops which typically only drop on single targets already and need those jams to work - especially if said target is a carrier.
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