Stilettos will still be useful for tackle, which is what they’re bonused for. Raptor is still good fast tackle with four mids, like Stilettos. Taranis isn’t as useful, sure, but it’s kind of shitty now anyway.
The stuff they were good at before they are still good at, they just aren’t as slippery as they used to be.
It’s not a sales pitch - I don’t care if you don’t ever use a combat inty again. Arrendis asked what the possible uses for these ships will be after nullification and I explained it.
But, in the end, if there really IS no use for these ships OTHER than nullification, than CCP needs to fix those ships so that they have more value than strictly nullification (which is, honestly, what we told them and why that indicates nullification on combat ships like this is overpowered - if the ship sucks without nullification, than that’s a design flaw).
…and the ones that were not good will now b worse. ty for pointing out that this is NOT balance.
if nullification is overpowered on the flimsiest lowest dps ships in the game aside from t1 frigs, then where is it Not overpowered? more implication that this is a worthy priority for balance in the first place. it is not. if they wanted to address the ‘cancer claw’ then they could’ve done just that. but they aren’t. they are gimping a handful of ships, and you really want them to do it to more.
your lack of interest in whether a ship is flown at all, or ever again, is exactly why ive repeated called you out for being disingenuous in your statement that this is all for ‘fixing broken things’ for ‘better balance’. its just. not. true.
Absolutely. Because I do not believe that any combat ship should be nullified.
thank you for your honesty.
No, you didn’t. “asked possible uses…explained it”. Going back to the car example, I ask you as the salesperson why I’d buy a 4x4 Jeep when there’s no mountains to run around in, and you tell me the gas mileage. You described one subjective datapoint about the ships and left it at that.
I say subjective because the “high alpha” is only in relation to frigates, obviously. And as a fast class of ships, frigates rely on mobility and speed to survive and thrive. Saying that a ship class is useless because it gets caught in the fishing nets on gates is misleading since most fast and weak ships are useless if easily caught in said nets. Removing the distinguishing feature from a ship and relegating it being a more expensive but otherwise similar ship to anything else that can get the job done better isn’t indicative of anything other than this is a poorly thought out change to the ship in the first place.
Also…
You never get to make such a comment to anyone on these forums. You bristled at the idea of using established and highly effective countermeasure modules and showed off complete ignorance to the idea of fight preparation and this game’s design philosophy. You even made a second ignorant comment which got you dunked on be me and an adamant supporter of yours mere moments after you made it because it was just that obvious.
ty khan, I KNEW it wasn’t just me that sees Right Through the bs that is steadily being peddled by these …ppl.
whats sad, and im partially to blame, is that by engaging with them, while illustrative, is not really furthering the conversation. they will persist, and at this point my only reasonable assumption is that they persist because they have some personal interest in the results. ive already been called insane for answering them 1 for 1, paste eater etc. nbd, but without someone calling them out, they get full run of the asylum. just cant let that happen without at least a Little pushback!
Sorry, but neither you nor him get to tell me what do.
oh that’s right, cuz you were elected eh? pfft
Then maybe you shouldn’t have been harping on ‘null bears’ if you don’t wanna talk about what nullsec does. And you and others have been accusing the CSM of doing crap to make things safe for Delve. Delve is Goons. So don’t try telling me you’re not talking about us. And don’t try telling anyone that when you’re throwing around ‘null bears’ as a perjorative, as an insult, that you’re refraining from calling people names.
Also, the country of origin in SA referred to above was Colombia, not Guatemala. Guatemala’s in Central America. So, you know, if I want help with things, maybe I’ll wait for someone who doesn’t get their facts wrong repeatedly. (And honestly, if you know bears only as honey-eaters… holy carp, do you not know bears… especially Kodiaks. Bears are omnivores. That means predation, especially in the case of Polar bears.)
And if you think the people flying rorqs and ratting carriers in Delve (like that Thanatos, once again) aren’t going on combat ops on their alts, you should consider educating yourself. I’ve already talked about the balance issues in this patch. The balance issues in this patch are… nothing. There’s no real benefit to any of this, and the balance issues being addressed aren’t major issues that need immediate fixing to begin with.
Nothing here couldn’t have been addressed better, with less outcry, following a comprehensive review and explanation of how each ship class is supposed to fit into the big picture, and what roles and purposes the devs want them fulfilling.
I’ve made a similar point in the thread Brisc started to discuss an idea for fixing the HIC change. No, it’s not alright. And yes, it’s pretty obvious that if they’ll screw over one group, they’ll screw over another when they think that’s advantageous to them. I’m not ignoring that part of the pattern at all. This is not the way a company should be treating their customers. And that’s a thing in all of this. When it comes to how they treat us, don’t refer to ‘players’. Refer to customers. Frame it with the blatant reminder of ‘people who pay money so you keep your job’.
Well, first, you don’t see the other combat inties as much because the Claw’s damage bonus makes it the best of the group. That’s kinda obvious.
Second, you don’t see this with things like T3Cs because while they are nullified, they’re not insta-warp… in other words, it’s “the combination of getting into warp before the server can register a tackle, plus bubble-immunity”.
You know, just like you quoted there.
Let’s be clear here, Brisc, I mentioned the Stiletto because it’s the 2nd-place alpha (the thing you said Combat Inties were still good at) among all interceptors, until you start mounting artillery on Maledictions and Ares. And it’s less than half what a Claw has (515 to 1100). The Arty Malediction and Area come in at 671 volley.
However, the way you really want to apply damage now is not actually pure volley damage, but, as one of my guys said yesterday, “tyool 2018, its about 10 second dps bursts. You dont need mass alpha to break huge internal tanks, you need short term dps to break a bricktank before help can arrive”. So the real application for the Malediction is rockets, and the Ares, probably rails. I’d have to look at the Ares again when I’m not exhausted.
I mean, this is what I do as ‘the guy who runs the fitting team’: look at what things are useful for, how they can be made useful, what unexpected roles we can find for them. (It’s also why I populate the team with a bunch of diabolically-creative people like Gennel and Locke. They make it real easy by pointing out literally every trick I miss.)
So among the combat interceptors, the ones that ‘what are these for now?’ was being asked about, the Claw has alpha, the others… no. But the Claw’s alpha doesn’t compete with a Wolf’s, and an interceptor isn’t useful for tackle. Not when AFs go more or less just as fast on-grid, and don’t die when you sneeze on them. That’s why the Stiletto won’t really see fleet use, except for a +/-1 Scout. Even burning perches, you might as well use an AF, because it’ll still be useful when the fighting starts.
And by the way, if you want on-grid speed? Fastest sustained speed possible is a Wolf. It’s ridiculously expensive, and it’s not really a fit I’d suggest taking into combat even in its cheap version, but… yeah. 16b gets you a Wolf that’ll run at 13.5km/s for 90 hours. (Edit to add this parenthetical: with heat, it’s 19.8km/s. So don’t carry EMPs, carry nanite paste.) Then you slow down to 12km/s because you ran out of drugs. So…
Yeah. They do need to do that. Cuz right now, they bring nothing to the table without the bubble immunity.
so I have not seen any devblog announced changes withdrawn because of overwhelming critical reception; we know that imperium welcoming the changes and whatever council too … so respectfully CCP:
then thing will go as you wish
That is a feature not a bug. It is EvE gospel that new (or at least newer) players have a place in the game for themselves. Being critical of a mechanic that allows someone of less than than 5 million sp to participate is a black mark on you.
Mainly because isolation leads to stagnation. For the better or for the worse, conflict is what drives this game. I get why claw fleets specifically need adjustment, though.
Also, because some form of asymmetric warfare so that this game is not reduced to a simple N+1.
This isn’t about participation. It’s about completely dominating. It’s one thing to be useful, it’s another thing to have an I-win button.
I am confident that you guys, if anybody, can come up with a role for them. And if you can’t, I’ll be looking forward to taking your feedback and ideas to the next summit to present for another balance pass.
Target practice. Skeet shooting. As the skeet.
Seriously. AFrigs do everything else they do, these days, and they do it with a module that gives a half-assed Wolf 30k EHP. As for feedback and ideas… you’ve gotten them. Multiple times: CCP needs to figure out how all of it fits together. Stop trying to make quick fixes. No more Band-Aids™ on Band-Aids™. They need to do more than ‘twist some knobs’.
Fixing a complex system with years of built-up crud and barnacle-like accretion is not something that gets done quickly, and it’s not something that gets done by nudging a few things here and there and changing a couple of numbers. At this point, ‘balance’ passes are directly counterproductive to finding solutions
This is a recipe for doing nothing. We’ve talked about this before. You guys want a fundamental restructuring of how CCP does this balance stuff and I just don’t see that happening.
I would prefer faster fixes that are evaluated on TQ and if they don’t work, they get rolled back rather than waiting for a perfect system that is probably never going to happen again.
We have talked about it before. But it’s not a recipe for doing nothing. It’s a recipe for telling CCP to cut the crap and do the job right.
We’ve been doing it their way for 15 years, and it’s gotten us here, where entire ship classes are completely useless outside of very specific niche uses, and the devs don’t have a clear idea that they can articulate about what each type of ship is supposed to be doing. Where devs say one thing to players who are right in front of them, then throw that out when it comes time to put in the fix that was discussed, while ignoring simple, obvious solutions that prevent the entire problem.
I’m not saying ‘give us a perfect system’. I’m saying ‘before you go groping in the dark some more, how about coming up with what the big-picture solution should look like and letting us know so we can help you get there.’
Me telling them this isn’t going to make it happen. I’m working with what I’ve got here.