Yeah I agree. The reason I agree is simply that I know you’re right, because the whole game was far more active years ago. Local wasn’t dead silent everywhere in high sec, people met new friends every day, chatted and did all kinds of stuff.
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I’m stil somewhat confused by the ECM change. There are specific counter modules for them, saying you watch a lsow death without eccm is like saying a scrammed hauler watches a slow death without WCS. Working as intended.
If the devs don’t like the way it currently works why not change it to breaking locks as burst jammers do, but with range and higher strength? Then ecm still actually jams people, eccm still works as intended and an attacked ship can still fight back.
Saying ‘no-one fits the counter module for exactly this, so we’d better nerf the module’ is quite frankly ridiculous.
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a hell of a lot of the reason we dont have that now is ceptors 
… but it’s null seccers who don’t want to fit it so OBVIOUSLY it’s an issue with the game right?
Right?
Have you seen reddit? People are so retarded. First they do the right thing and revolt, then they calm down thanks to one single dev post meant to ■■■■■■■■ them into silence again … and just like every single damn time it worked flawlessly and people are happily waiting for the next time they can be bullshitted.
I don’t bother with reddit, the amount of BS offends my olfactory system.
I’d just quite like a dev to post the rational for nerfing a module because people don’t want to fit the counter. That is their choice, and they should live or die by it just as the WCS-less hauler should.
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Reddit is pretty much the last bastion of players who aren’t staying silent. You might like them or not, but without them the worm holers would have just gotten ignored. Ignoring something or someone because you don’t like them, for whatever reason, isn’t a smart thing to do.
I would like to point out that Caldari ecm ships are also poorly armed,
The bellicose slot layout is 4/5/4
With 4 launcher slots and a 40 m3 drone bays/bandwidth
Bonuses to laser pointer and missile roof
The Celestis is 3/5/5
With 3 turret/launcher and 50m3 dronebay/ bandwidth
Bonus to sensor damps
The arbitrator is 4/4/5
With 2 turret and 3 missile hard points
A whopping 150 m3 dronebay and 50 bandwidth
With bonuses to weapon disruptor
Drone health/dmg/mining!??
And now the blackbird for 4/6/3
2 launcher/turret
A meger 10dronebay/bandwidth
And a bonus to ecm Strength and optimal range/falloff
It’s pretty obvious which ship is shoe horned. Even if you use 2 emc mods you still have 4 slots for tank and prop, so a buffer fit has 3 tank mods and one prop and a active has one prop, one cap booster and 2 tank. Trying to armor tank it still makes it ■■■■ fit and it has such a crappy drone bays it can’t use them to save yourself
ECM should become a more consistent mechanic. Currently it is a binary all or nothing effect.
I think ECM should instead be a fairly consistent effect where it takes a constant time of ECM exposure (modified by ECM strength, sensor strength and fallof) to break a lock and apply a jammed debuff for a certain time.
This reduces RNG and still makes the effect useful.
The change proposed in the October patch doesn’t really address the core issue of ECM RNG.
once upon a time there was a lush forest full of dark corners were certain death lurks, nasty things wait for us in the jungle but also deep within lay our pray. The fruits of this forest used to be rewarding and worth the risk of venturing deep into the darkness. however, the lush forest of pvp that used to be eve turned in to a desert with nothing more than the odd watering hole of pvp, nothing but huge herds of ships & empty systems. the main reason this is true for eve is the fact that people can warp where ever they want with out risk or cost. ( something that never fitted into the way eve works ) JBs and interceptors ruined what Eve was. All so that 2 or 3-month-olds could get into 0.0 without a carrier.
This is the way it should work:
you’re new to eve and can’t fly a carrier yet? stay in highsec, lowsec, or NPC 0.0 like every other MMO makes their noobs do. or risk the long road.
Remove JBs (use your carrier unless you don’t want to spend the isk on fuel)
nerf all interceptor nullification. use your carrier or fly a proper ship.
buff all interceptor to fit there role better +7.5% sub-warp speed bonus, +5% warp speed bonus. (just in total, not per level of skill for interceptors)
and suddenly you have a non-capital good healthy pvp environment something we have been missing in 0.0 for years.
you must be talking about some golden age of eve, long long past. I try to assume ppl only do things they want to do, when given the option. I assume that, bc it is typical of people in general. if ppl are flying a certain ship it is because they want to. if you cant beat them. join them. if 90% of undocked players were in the exact same hull, uh, yuh, we got a Major Ship balance problem. if 90% of players undocked in an interceptor are flying the exact same inty hull, that’s a balance problem amongst the inty class. the changes don’t match the claims, and the claims don’t justify a change in the first place. there are things that are missing in the equation, and ive tried to point out a few that I can think of. there are probly others. its been a hard thing for me to accept over the years, buts its a valid game design: asteroids are not there to make miners happy. they are there to bait miners into undocking, so the pvp’ers have something to shoot. if the last part bothers you, don’t go mining. same applies to ratting. you see massive inflation over the years, and nerfs to certain ships Directly related to the isk supply being watered down bc some ships/ppl are not dying enough. I don’t think inty’s are broken as is. if the claw is op, tweak it into line with the others. if they are all op, tweak them to acceptable performance. hammering them back to being near useless (like before adding nullification, but after the nerf that followed nullification) compared to other hulls is just IMbalancing them. read the change history on them, and youll see theres a reason they got nullification in the first place.
also, surely there was a Reason the bubbles had the stats that they’ve had wrt hic ship speed and agility while active. I Kno the reason wasn’t for wh collapsing, cuz timing. we can keep wondering after they implement this change. I cant wait for the ‘op hic’ thread after this…will b funny.
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im still trying to point out what I think are better, less disruptive solutions to what is supposedly a problem. anything is better than what is Known to be on the table atm.
yep, lots of nerfs to ecm over the years. so we could arrive here? shame really.
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"you must be talking about some golden age of eve, long long past. I try to assume ppl only do things they want to do, when given the option. I assume that, bc it is typical of people in general. if ppl are flying a certain ship it is because they want to. if you cant beat them. join them. if 90% of undocked players were in the exact same hull, uh, yuh, we got a Major Ship balance problem. if 90% of players undocked in an interceptor are flying the exact same inty hull, that’s a balance problem amongst the inty class. the changes don’t match the claims, and the claims don’t justify a change in the first place. there are things that are missing in the equation, and ive tried to point out a few that I can think of. there are probly others. its been a hard thing for me to accept over the years, buts its a valid game design: asteroids are not there to make miners happy. they are there to bait miners into undocking, so the pvp’ers have something to shoot. if the last part bothers you, don’t go mining. same applies to ratting. you see massive inflation over the years, and nerfs to certain ships Directly related to the isk supply being watered down bc some ships/ppl are not dying enough. I don’t think inty’s are broken as is. if the claw is op, tweak it into line with the others. if they are all op, tweak them to acceptable performance. hammering them back to being near useless (like before adding nullification, but after the nerf that followed nullification) compared to other hulls is just IMbalancing them. read the change history on them, and youll see theres a reason they got nullification in the first place.
also, surely there was a Reason the bubbles had the stats that they’ve had wrt hic ship speed and agility while active. I Kno the reason wasn’t for wh collapsing, cuz timing. we can keep wondering after they implement this change. I cant wait for the ‘op hic’ thread after this…will b funny."
if ppl are flying a certain ship it is because they want to.
the above line is plain wrong people fly small ships these days because the game demands it.
if you can’t beat them. ill do both but, not the point.
all that you said is well and good but the fact is eve pvp isn’t as good as it used to be and that is because we can move our pods all over eve in interceptors without any risk and at a super low cost. (also no running costs like fuel) this change that happened to interceptors was to help the poor the weak and the bad so CCP could make more money but it was 100% bad for eve in the long term.
@StaticEcho
what if they make inty not nullified vs Piloted bubbles? its still something im pondering on. per the traits on inty’s, the first two immunities could b removed and at least there would a Reason for more bubble ships to b out in space instead of just anchored bubbles doing the speedbumping for ppl. it would b less heavy handed than removing All nullification from the 4 hulls; 3 of which are not causing major problems atm.
and im not disagreeing about the golden age of eve per se; things were always better in the old days cuz absence makes the heart grow fonder. and because a lot of things have not changed for the better. none of these changes as described in the blog address the deeper problems tho. imo.
pilots being able to travel ceptor around I think is overall a net plus, as the act of traveling(by itself just to get from a to b) is generally unfun for anything that cant cyno around. pilot mobility has a lot to do with content and power projection. since this dev blog was all about ‘feeling’s and fun-ness’ I would think its something they would want to preserve not smash. caldari pilots are getting double kicked here as is.
Ah I get it, the fact it is losing a low slot means less dps or tank… plius the poor tracking
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what if they make inty not nullified vs Piloted bubbles? Personally, I think anything that helps stop the interceptor blight on eve would be a good thing. Do I think this would fix the problem, no i don’t but it would go a long way to helping it.
“3 of which are not causing major problems atm.”
it’s not the hulls its the nullification it’s self. Before interceptors had nullification it was t3s and you had to spend a bill ish on one of them. they can cloak but they are slow to warp so it was balanced. or to put it another way, they still have an element of risk.
other ways you could move across 0.0 was by capital jumping this has a fuel cost and is only worth it if its worth the fuel vs time cost. so it is an option and a good safe(ish) way to move across space that costs so it’s not worth doing most of the time. so it’s balanced
NPC null was made for low-skilled players to get a taste of 0.0 if they wanted and that’s how it should have stayed.
your right none of these changes have much to do with what we are talking about apart from the ceptor one and that’s just the tip of an iceberg if you ask me.
“absence makes the heart grow fonder”
we are not suffering from nostalgia and it can be made better.
“pilots being able to travel ceptor around I think is overall a net plus, as the act of travelling (by itself just to get from a to b)”
ideally, people should want to fit a pvp ship for travelling in 0.0 IMO
yes, travelling isn’t fun however just as a side note being able to get from a to b faster doesn’t make it more fun it just makes Eve smaller.
less unfun then.
you and I aren’t too far off from the same page I don’t think. I guess in the t3 context I kno what your saying about being slower and more expensive in order to get that bubble immunity, but they were/are far far tankier than an interceptor. I mean sneeze at them, or just sneeze in the right direction once, and they (inty’s) poof.
if only looking at the price, sure its very cheap to get to skip bubbles, but the sub 2s inty’s aren’t exactly primo for combat. it can work with the right #'s vs the right targets, but we can say that about a lot of things. just looking at the state of inty’s vs other frigs of comparable combat potential, the only thing that makes the inty’s worthy of 0.0 over the rest is the nullification. take that away and suddenly dozens of other ships would b better, all for different reasons. it also just so happens that any frig in ns without nullification, is a duck compared to the things youll run into in ns space. I feel (cuz feelings matter per the dev blog - sry had to slip it in) that the interceptors are as close to balanced as you can make them without breaking them. the claw perhaps being an exception to the rest. otoh, knock the claw down and something will take its place. its the game forcing ppl into small fast things (fozziesov) that is probly what needs more looking at. but they don’t have the time or the vision. hell, why when they can bat inty’s and ecm and the hic exploit? lol
and I agree, nostalgia aside, things Could b Better 
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there are no better options to get around in eve right now so everyone and their alts flys them and none of them are catchable. I refer to my post about the forest and that how that all this movement but nothing catchable has turned eve into a pvp desert with a few pockets of pvp life.
(edit: life survives even in a desert but will never flourish) ie there is pvp out there it’s just weak and far too sparse (small gang / solo)
I’ve got an AB inty fit that’s got a tracking disruptor on it and its wicked. it would be better if I could land right on people’s bubbles tho. its bait if I have to warp to a tactical and then warp down to a bubble. this has nothing to do with my reasons for getting involved on this here but I thought I’d mention it just as so that people remember that these ships have other uses just like all ships and wouldn’t be redundant without nullification
I campaigned on making local less of an intel tool.
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I am unclear as to why such changes are going to make ECM better for gameplay. As it stands ECM has a counterplay in the ECCM modules whether remote or local. How is this going to be of any use in gameplay after the affected changes? Will ECCM work the same?
Maybe even a chance of loosing lock initially or a gradient of relock timer would have been more appropriate.
With regards to the interceptor changes will you be adding a role bonus to the combat interceptor that are having the nullification bonus removed?