I disagree, what about dropping on carriers with blops?
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Eh, Iâll give him that one. It is a game of advancement. The whole structure of the game is built around increasing your capabilities, your competencies, and your options. Itâs structured around working to achieve things, and thereâs a lot of people who will legitimately feel like the time and effort theyâve spent playing by CCPâs rules is getting shat on here.
Thatâs going to happen. Itâs inevitable in a situation like this, and itâs totally valid for them to feel that way⌠because they have been playing by the rules. Theyâve been playing by the rules CCP set, and now it feels like CCP is telling them âyou were bad for playing by our rulesâ.
Exactly this kind of problem is why the whole âweâll just make some tweaks and changes here and thereâ approach is bad. Because it inevitably ends up with significant, fairly sweeping course corrections like this.
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Itâs almost a meme at this point, CCP fixes something and the people abusing it scream âIâm leavingâ or âEVE is deadâ and then stick around. After hearing that for the better part of a decade forgive me if I donât believe you.
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No âalmostâ about it. Iâve had to hold back from a number of âcan I have your stuff?â responses. >.>
Its for those reasons I think CCP should have not done the rorq the way they did in the changes a couple years ago. once you give something over powered then slowly take it away it creates problems like this.
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What about it?
dropping blops on anything sounds like fun. I dont see the problem 
I have read most of this thread and a few things stand out for me. Firstly, repeating a thing many times does not make it true. Secondly, more people seem stuck on poking at the upset players than directing their attention to CCP, where it rightfully belongs. I know that most people are just dizzy at the idea of changes to help balance the game. This doesnt escape the fact that itâs taken many years for CPP to actually react to the problems that arose from their decisions and actions (fact) and honestly to me, looks like too little too late (opinion.)
I personally am livid that CCP put the game in this state and then years down the line proposes a fairly heavy nerf bat approach which still wonât fix the core issues. Iâm an industrialist so this post will be mostly from that perspective. (Rorquals donât mine too much, far from it, there is just too many of them because they are and remain scalable!) Iâm not going to fall over myself to thank them for this. They caused all these prolems with their game design. I also wonât take the time to mock the annoyed players. For many reasons, including the ones listed above, I understand why people are annoyed. While some of you like to blame then or their alliance for the state of things, itâs CCP and only CCP who has made the game this way. Itâs a really old game, with an aging player base and really stale end game that CCP has tried to sell to the world. âLook at these amazing battlesâ while the actual player base knows how bloody awful those battles are. CCP has done very little to add diversity and extend the end game as the game aged. Actually what they did was make it every easy for many people to get there very quickly, and players did, of course they did.
CCP made it so that players had to bunch up, and so alliances did that too. It appears that only one alliance didnât underestimate the importance of industrial might from the get go and they took all the tools that CCP gave them and grew very strong. As much as you all complain about Goons, CCP made that happen. The botting is a very different issue, that should be worked on harder by CCP. As much as people like to suggest that just one alliance has bots, the problem is far greater. Oh and hello rental empires. (On a side note, botting rorquals is not viable but botting barges, happens all the time and why risk a rorqual with squishy drones when a relatively cheap barge mines close enough to the same amount and is replacable. Botters will sell carriers/supers/vnis and get into barges and hide in plan sight)
I see some very annoyed and frustrated players reacting in this thread, who are then just mocked and trolled. Some of them may have benefited from making a cup of tea or coffee and just thinking things through for a while but at the end of the day CCP is making huge changes to a game style that lots of people invested a lot of time, game money and maybe real money into. Itâs not like the game offered many alternatives to these people, they wanted to make isk like every one else. The fact that many people effectively used the tools that CCP gave them to generate isk is not their fault. The fact that when their isk had less value, they scaled up any activity which was scalable isnât their fault either. Iâm pretty sure that CCP expect a backlash from the player base over this, theyâd be quite naive not to. People were invested in a broken style of game play that just pushed them to do more every time the nerf bat comes out. The problem is that these changes appear unlikely to fix the core problems and things might remain broken.
I didnât start mining with the plan of having a ridiculous army of rorquals (or the other capital ships that my rorquals enabled me to have). I love industry and building and I just wanted to compete. I ended up adding more rorquals because of the nerf bats and the falling value of the the ore and end products that still took me the same amount of time and effort to make. Lately I looked at the 80m - 90m isk p/h actual yield (not your paper numbers) and Iâve been aware that they arenât really worth it, I have advised friends asking about training one rorqual alt that itâs not close to worth the investment for them. Best mining ship, yes. Good investment, not really, so nerfing the shield and yield of an already borked ship doesnât make me feel very enthusiastic.
Right now, my main feeling is relief, huge relief. I can retire my rorquals for a while, maybe forever. I havenât used them in a while and I wasnât enjoying the mining to get isk to plex so that I could keep minng, Im sure that my investment in the drones and hulls will drop in value dramatically and I know I canât get back the more than 8 years of cumulative training that I did on mostly old and established accounts. I wonât be boxing 9 or 10 accounts, be on edge, constantly scanning new sigs, watching pipe systems, watching out for strat ops and pings and intel, watching for bombers bar, pulling drones many times an hour as roams and drone stealers/killers come though, cleaning up cherry picked anoms to wait hours to share the respawn with the other lazy krabs. I relieved because I wonât be mining my butt off, just to sell bargain basement priced ships to get isk to plex rorqual accounts to keep mining, on edge, you catch my drift. I krabbed well, in a place that krabbed well and I achieved things I didnât even know that I wanted. Thanks CCP. On reflection, I wasnât having much fun at all!
Iâm happy to throw in the towel for now, go see the sights of new eden outside the asteroids and I will be happy not to be flying ridiculosly expensive ships which are masively disproportionate in their risk v reward just to play for inflated plex in a nasty cycle of dull game play. Iâll leave it to people more invested than me to fly the rorquals now and there will be plenty, of this I have no doubt. I actually donât want to provide content to the 1% of eve players who have made a lot of fuss on reddit, while the rest of us just quietly play the game that CCP provides. I hold the unpopular opinion that 6 or 8 people in relatively cheap ships shouldnt be able to come into my homeland in our prime time and kill an expensive capital ship that required a lot of time and isk with ease because they want to, even if by CCPâs design there are too many of us making isk. It feels like a lazy fix to appease the few instead of proper game balance. Time will tell I guess.
Iâm noping out of mining, with a grin on my face, maybe Iâll find something else to do and maybe not but itâs been a fantastic 10 years. And no, you canât have my stuff, go do your own brainless krabbing
Donât be too unkind to the enraged, they just had a rug pulled out from under them that CCP put there and left there for far too long. I have all but lost my faith in CCP to fix things in a reasonable way.
(I wonder what the reddit users will ask for next, maybe something to fix the fact that the (botting) barges and (botting) ratters can warp away too easily, mining and ratting should hold them in place for elite pvp right?)
Grr Goons.
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I agree completely. Especially since Fozzie said at the time that they knew it was too good and theyâd have to dial it back. Thatâs basically telling your players ahead of time âhey, listen, weâre gonna piss you off. We know itâs gonna piss you off, and we know we could avoid pissing you off by doing things a little differently⌠but we why would we want to not piss you off?â
I donât, for one moment, think Fozzie or anyone else meant to tell the players what amounts to âwe will take a crap on you and donât care if you donât like itâ⌠I think they didnât realize thatâs how it would be received. I just donât know why they didnât realize it, since thatâs literally how every group of people reacts to having things taken away from them when they didnât do anything wrong.
But this all goes back to my insistence that there needs to be a coherant, cohesive vision for the entire game, and that vision needs to be communicated to the players⌠in detail⌠so that not only can the devs work out what needs to go into that vision, but they can then show the players how it all fits together.
Itâs like any relationship: communication is what makes it all work.
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Now you canât simply ecm fighters. But thatâs offtopicish
Because itâs a dumb idea.
There is still a social aspect to mining, and making it impossible for people to do activities they want to do together in the game is bad design.
Yeah, there speaks the goon pet. You canât imagine people mining in other ships than Rorquals. No surprise.
The problem is I think people overlooked that and they had it so they want to keep it. The folly of fozzie I guess.
If you compare todayâs so called nerfed rorq to the rorq of 5 years ago you will see you are still way ahead of where you used to be.
I can imagine a lot of people mining in ships other than Rorqs, and I think thatâs a likely thing to have happen with these changes.
Makes that Community Relations team gutting all that more painfulâŚ
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In my mind a rorq or two boosting a fleet of ships where the bulk of the ore comes via exhumers and barges is what imagine for eve mining. The excavators being able to keep up with one boosted hulk or so is not unreasonable but having things so slanted where its better to have all rorqs and no exhumers seems wrong.
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Of course they did. They always will. It doesnât matter how much you warn people, when you take something away that theyâve enjoyed, theyâre gonna get mad about it. So you have to be careful about what you give out in the first place.
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Which is why I think the problem started with the original changes to the rorqual. That should have been done a lot differently.
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Do you think that calling someone a goon pet because they have a different opinion to your own makes you appear any less small mided? It reduces the validity of your argument. Grr goons. Goons ruined rorquals!
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I agree with you. in game I can be all grr goons but out here talking about mechanics I see no place for that. We are all players in the game here.