Devblog: Updates to Sales Taxes & Brokers Fees

[Quor_Dresden]

@Roland_AdventPrime

TRADE 5 will not be the only skill needed to handle this new tax levy/ it takes over 4 and a half months of dedicated skill training to do that (that=fully train up all your trade skills).

Wedge did say TRADING skills, not trade skill. So yes, we know. Oh, and it’s only 2 skills you need. Get cracking if you are going in the trade business.

[Sylvia_Kildare]

@Malcolm_Arzadar

None of that matters because isk doesn’t leave the game when a ship is destroyed, in fact isk is added to the game via insurance pay outs. That’s what an isk faucet is

I understand all that. But if the amount of ISK introduced from the insurance payout is LESS (say with t2 or t3 ships like I’ve been talking about how shitty the insurance is for 'em, whether basic or platinum) than the ISK that was lost when buying the ship in the form of broker fees and sales tax for the ship’s seller (which are now getting jacked up higher… oh, and there’s also the isk sink fees for research, invention, copying, manufacturing, etc.)… then it COULD have been a net ISK loss from the game, actually.

Isn’t that what these sinks CCP is now raising up are for? to reduce the impact of faucets (which they’re trying to lower)?

@Mirran

Just remove Insurance?

Might as well. Does ■■■■ for t2/t3 pilots.

@Youcango_Poundsand

Good to see that tax changes wont be bothering you at all. I think your piloting skills speak volumes.

Hey, he’s ISK positive. Killboard green, op success.

@Abe_Rollin

Not sure about them being safer… But do WH’s Pay better?

The individual sites in higher class wormholes may pay a little more per site than Null.

If you really want Null to have an income similar to Jspace then throw away the easy ISK “magical anom re-spawner”. Then when you have no guaranteed sites to rat and have to wait hours even days for new anoms you will see that Null ratting income is much higher.

Whether WHs pay more or not, they’re more dangerous to run (well… they were before the blackout, at least) and you don’t get your ISKies right away, you gotta haul dem blue loots and WH sleeper salvage to k-space and sell to NPC and/or player buy orders or list 'em by sell order.

One thing they could do in NS is reduce the anom rates, sure… another thing they could do is make those ESS things more mandatory and carve out a larger and larger portion of the bounties from sites and make them things you have to haul somewhere like blue loot/salvage from WH space.

Probably not only reduces the richness out there but also increases the grind/logistics pains/etc… and thus the burnout… there’s the rub.

@Cyborg_TX-500_M-101

What about custom offices and PI tax? Seems silly these are player driven and basically only benefited the rich corps who were online when the changes were made and dropped a ton of them all over the place. Shameful.

You know that skill that reduces the tax rate by 1% per level? Customs Code Expertise or something, IIRC.

They should increase that to 2% per level along with the slight buffs they’re giving to Accounting and Broker Relations.

@Darthun

Jita was a player made agreement. A beacon of certitude in a universe of constant chaos.

Don’t kill jita trading. you will lose a major major part of this game’s spirit.

I’ve heard of the ol’ days of the Yulai trade hub and the superhighways, I wish I’d experienced those days. But Jita (and Amarr) with the Kaap/Niarja superhighway jump in between them remain as as similar a situation to that original HS trade hub situation as we’re gonna get, and… yeah, I don’t really want to see the death of it, either.

Wouldn’t mind the death of some of the spam in Jita local, but that’ll just move to Perimeter anyway. Or they can just allow citadels to be built in Jita/Amarr/Rens/Dodi (already can in Hek), and be done with the restrictions.

@Gah_khaz

Band together as much as they want, they still can’t access the things they need - the things we used to provide in the past, to fuel their tech in highsec - a ragged gang of highsec ruffians in lowtech illfit ships banding together to ‘counter all null blocks’, now that’s a horrible Mad Max movie I would very much want to see, such great comedy ^^ Nay, we shall continue to annihilate highsec, put them firmly where they belong… Under our heels.

You sound like the member of a gang of adults who loves nothing more than driving in circles around a city park and waiting for kids to come play some basketball on the court so you can hop out of your ride and dunk on them all afternoon long.

If HS is really so beneath you 1337 NSers, then putting 'em under you heels is (way too) EZ mode, isn’t it?

[MinorFreak]

code something useful. srsly. either that or get concord to stop random rats at gates while customs/concord just sit there and do nothing.

[Youcango_Poundsand]

@Mizhara_Del_thul

Not going to happen yet, anyway. There’s still way too much ISK flowing in through the staggering amount of bears in nullsec. Blackout or not, rats killed in various dotlan maps know no end, and the isk still flows like water. Supers need to be nerfed to the ground for ratting, and cynos need some sort of limitation so a determined attacker can take on ratting carriers and stand a chance if they have the numbers.

Please come do something about it. Bring as many people as you like.

[James_Duadoulin]

waits for when ccp does something way more drastic like use dev accounts with unlimited isks to buy and then destroy everything on the markets.

Players will still have isk and whatever in reserve but it will tank the economy and maybe be like a hard reset.

[Dato_Tovikov]

Gonna have to update my market tools!

[James_Duadoulin]

wait until the drifters destroy all the main trade hub stations overnight making all players with assets lose them. (devs would probalby have to give 6 months of free subs for that one)

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

@Youcango_Poundsand

Please come do something about it. Bring as many people as you like.

… I should do something about nerfing Supers, and the umbrellas?

My powers are many and varied, but they do not include a CCP tag next to my name, I’m afraid.

[Melek_D_Ivri]

Pretty Much This.

[Youcango_Poundsand]

@Mizhara_Del_thul

… I should do something about nerfing Supers, and the umbrellas?

No you were dribbling on about endless ratting and some other blah blah that highsec usually does. We welcome the fights. You may be thinking of the people in Goons. But at my neck of the woods we like getting heavy action and good fights.

[Nikki_Silverstorm]

Pretty much a road patch solution for the Isk faucet. This tax change just make life harder for some professions with low margin and new player with already low income.

Space rich people don’t really care about it. This solution doesn’t create more content or space conflict.

1/10 for originality and functionality

[Albert_Spear]

I guess I will have to mine and rat more to make a living in Eve. As a small corp player, I about break even now on selling stuff. So I guess I will have to build less and rat more, at least until the prices catch up with the costs.

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

You shouldn’t be so quick to take offense. I don’t really care what happens in “your neck of the woods”. I’m talking about isk faucets versus isk sinks, and as long as certain maps can show staggering amounts of dead rats 23.5/7, that’s not something “heavy action” and “good fights” will have much relevance on.

[Youcango_Poundsand]

@Albert_Spear

I guess I will have to mine and rat more to make a living in Eve. As a small corp player, I about break even now on selling stuff. So I guess I will have to build less and rat more, at least until the prices catch up with the costs.

Same thing is gonna happen that always happens. Forum sperg and autism followed by acceptance and then everyond gets on with things like it never happened. Welcome to Eve

[Youcango_Poundsand]

@Mizhara_Del_thul

You shouldn’t be so quick to take offense

You shouldnt assume im offended. I legit want action out here im bored and the blackout has scared off the fights. Honest i like typing GF in local even if im the pod.

[Quor_Dresden]

Not sure the recent changes are an indication of that level of armageddon to the game. Every thread needs its drama queen, so congrats on earning that title.

[Dragos_Highwind]

@Marsha_Mallow

It’s an attempt to balance ISK velocity by tweaking the leavers, effectively. But they’re using a real-life mechanic to do so - taxes from (I’m sorry but lore, lmao) NPCs. Not only is taxation an emotive issue IRL - people either want it or don’t, but it’s generally expected to pay for stuff in society and to improve it. This is a bloody game. They’re using ‘taxation’ as a term and a methodology to extract ISK from the economy and control inflation because the devs keep derping on designs and creating horrific ISK fountains everyone runs up and down with their pants on head telling them to get under control.

The consequence of that is that people who have the time and inclination to abuse can create 100s of accounts and abuse whatever is broken to the detriment of people with less time/money - and it exacerbates unsubs.

It’s a shoddy way to engage in economic balance, it doesn’t address the real issues, it annoys people selling PLEX and it forces people reliant on PLEX to stay subbed to grind more. It’s basically a cycle of doom, and it’s been going on for years.

Also, tbf I don’t actually think the sky will fall with this change. If anything the TTT guys can put their base broker fees up to 7.5%ish and still stay competitive with Jita prices, which would be a hilarious side-effect of trying to tackle the ‘1%’ who have so much wealth etc.

The fact that this is an overt attempt to try spark conflict ingame over competition for resources when no one wants to grind through these abominable structures and deal with broken mechanics might result in unified screeching as a counterpoint. And this is what you get when you try to force through rushed changes that you wrote on the back of a napkin. And yes, we will all laugh, regardless of the outcome - but this is decidedly not a player suggestion, and I highly doubt the CSM have been pushing for blanket changes that might depress subs long-term.

To be 100% honest if someone is getting emotive over the taxation of an NPC station in the game, they are taking a video game too seriously and need to analyze their life choices.

This is a combination of ISK sink and demotivate to use NPC stations. Player stations drive conflict and resource loss, NPC stations do not. They should be developing mechanics like these to discourage trading from these locations.

People that are paying for PLEX with in game currency do not help pay for the company’s costs to run the game. Pure and simple that’s the bottom line. Their value is what they bring to the game that entices others that do pay with real money, be it PLEX, social interaction, or the illusion of an active player count. Currently the cost in isk to pay for a month of sub time is pretty ridiculously low. Is that a bad thing? No of course not, but trying to say that increase sinks in the form of taxes will push those players out of the game is a little silly. As long as currency is difficult to grind, people will still PLEX for isk and make they grind short while difficult.

Note, nothing about this change says anything about trying to shift isk from the 1% to the little guy directly. TTT will benefit as well as other major alliances that stranglehold offshoring. However, removing isk from the game helps with the long term health of the game while simultaneously encouraging conflict over potential market profits.

[Arrendis]

@Sylvia_Kildare

But if the amount of ISK introduced from the insurance payout is LESS (say with t2 or t3 ships like I’ve been talking about how shitty the insurance is for 'em, whether basic or platinum) than the ISK that was lost when buying the ship in the form of broker fees and sales tax for the ship’s seller (which are now getting jacked up higher

On a Scimitar, sold in an NPC station with no skills, this would mean an insurance payout of 24.4M. Basic insurance is 33.4M, Platinum is 66.9.

[Ranar_Linyne]

Do they though? Or is it us that defends new eden?

[Arrendis]

@Youcango_Poundsand

But at my neck of the woods we like getting heavy action and good fights.

Do you? And pray, where is that, since you’re posting from an alt whose corp doesn’t hold sov? I’d like to know, so we can help you get that heavy action you desire.