Devblog: War Declaration Changes - The War Adjacent to Christmas

[Sugar_Smacks]

The most exciting thing about this entire thread is Christmas being in the title.

[Erebus_TheChin_Sundance]

Quite frankly, I am amazed it has take what, a mere fifteen years for CCP to identify the tremendously negative effect a small unpleasant percentage of the player bass has had on the game. People have been highlighting this for the almost 5 years I have been part of the game.

Just think of all those people, that really wanted to play, but due to this ridiculous and bias system are no longer part of the community. Shunned, and cast aside.

It beggars believe.

Perhaps next is the stark realization that the tiny group of players that systematically only target newbro’s mining their first steps in high sec have also reduced the games capacity to draw in a larger revenue.

[Kalia_Dragovic]

This change is great! Finally I can play a great game and not have to worry about being war dec’d.

If people think this will have a negative impact on sub. numbers they are seriously wrong. I have already contacted a few former players and they have agreed to come back and have another go, because of this change. I am guessing that as word spreads you can play as a social corp, numbers will start to rise again. It’s all about the money!

Some people in this thread have called players like me cowards. I can only speak for myself, but my RL is very busy and I have no intention of setting my alarm clock to be at a certain place, at a certain time to defend a structure that is super cheap to replace (if desired) anyway. I like to run marathons as one of my hobbies, which requires a lot of training, so if any of you refuse to run a marathon does that make you a coward? This is just a video game, people really need to chill.

I like industry and trading, my only combat skills are the ones I was born with, less than 100k worth. If it makes someone feel good to blow up my empty Condor or pod, they should pat themselves on the back for a job well done. Elite pvp at it’s finest! Me personally, I could care less.

I look forward to the future of EVE, it’s definitely going in the right direction!

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Erebus_TheChin_Sundance

mere fifteen years for CCP to identify the

War dec mechanics have in fact not been the same for fifteen years. Payment changes affected the system quite a lot when they were introduced.

[Eric_Kalfren]

What you wrote there is very wise, and I just realized I’m retarded. I’m gonna try and keep that in mind when the next argument starts

[Tlatek]

Since wars are a Concord sanctioned act they could also enforce that parties not involved in the wars do not interfere.
Simply put you get concorded for aiding someone at war without being yourself involved directly.

[Tlatek]

The dev blog post mentions the fact that for now the location of the structure won’t matter. Does that mean that in the future they you will be able to declare regional wars?
It would make a lot more sense to have it that way. That means you have to commit your resources to a specific region and be vulnerable there in order to attack the locals.

It would make a lot of sense from a gameplay perspective too since wars would be something done in order to gain resources or access to them rather than just to kill people.

[Narcissist_X]

Time will tell with the number of structures. I think this swings the pendulum too much in favor of protection for the non-PVP players. Sure, they won’t be immune to ganking, but repeated ganking will lead to the same results of war decks, players will get sick of it and quit. The goal of the war deck changes is for player retention. I don’t have a problem with ganking. However with the lack of targets, I think this will lead to more ganking. Players like killing players, not bashing structures.

[Aergri_Evingod]

@Max_Deveron

@Arrendis

Ok, but how does that, for example, address the issue of the guy who’s stealing ore from the moon you’ve fracked? You’re shelling out money for the refinery, the fuel blocks, etc… he’s not even paying taxes or a fee to go mine the moongoo…

What’s the consequence? Is that ‘well, I guess you need to suicide gank him’ so you can lose more money?

@Brisc_Rubal
Arrendis has a point when it comes to highsec, once every blue moon I make the suggestion to get rid of ore belts and turn everything into sizeable anoms that corps can claim ownership to.

With moons, characters not on the access list of the owning corp should go suspect for touching the rocks and allow for some sort of counterplay (Ie shooting them in the face for theft)

I currently understand this as turning mining completely away from standart belts to anoms and making moon ore mining more ubiquious even available in high sec for standart ores?

Additionally they could turn mining to a game with a small sized structure that breaks out junks from giant asteroids and breaks them into stantard asteroids. This would create a career path for miners from small huge asteroid frakkers to moon miners. Those asteroids had to be found with probes and they could also include the impurity idea.

What I can see with custom offices being legal reason to be warrable and them being afaik the only structure to allow import of planetary goods that a shortage of high end planetary products from high sec worlds might appear.

Then again this are only my 0.002 isk.

[Narcissist_X]

If they don’t bring out their toys and try to build a castle in the sandbox, then what good is the sandbox?

[Vol_Arm_OOO]

@cMo_McCloud

You sir could not be more wrong,

come on - there are always outliers. Look around, just about every system you enter is infested with countless structures. Once upon a time, you would enter a system and see dead sticks, that were more trouble then they were worth to kill. This is much worse, abandoned citadels as far as you can see. If structure killing was fun and engaging these dead structures wouldnt be littering eve. These war dec changes do nothing for the mechanics of structure bashing. Consequently there will be absolutely no difference in highsec as to the rate of structures being killed.

[Lord_Xiskogen]

The thing is, a corp can still be elite pvp’er and don’t want to be wardecced, just because they frequently go to trade hubs to gear up.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Saeger1737

If you’ve never done any of the content why should you deny other people for doing it…

I’m not. I don’t make those decisions. I advocate on behalf of the community.

@Saeger1737

As a csm your supposed to support content of all types not make Eve online worse… Your literally getting rid of veteran players to fill space for alpha accounts…

I do support content of all types, but if one type of content is killing the game by driving out players more than retaining them, I think it’s pretty clear that something needs to be done to fix the issue.

@Saeger1737

And if your a nullsec guy why do you care about highsec wardecs, there are so many active ways around a wardec that you can do that you can still play the game and be apart of content.

I spent 10 years in highsec, and I still run missions in highsec all the time. I’ve been wardecced, I’ve wardecced. You play this game for 12 years and you do most of what’s in it at one point or another.

@Saeger1737

More new players die in the failing to be fun faction warfare system then in wardecs and there are graphs and data to prove it… Structure bashes are still LAME, BORING and DULL. Yet you want to subject people to this endlessly in order to protect your miners in highsec.

I don’t advocate for any changes that are designed to benefit me primarily, or my current playstyle primarily. Miners in highsec can easily protect themselves by just staying in a newb corp. That’s not the point of these changes or the push to revamp war decs.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@zluq_zabaa

Also, if war decs are supposed to have a place in EVE, it seems the number one priority in that field, is to take some of the proposals regarding more interesting and rewarding designs for war decs as an inspiration and make sure that CCP does not stick too long to this interim solution. As we all know, “first iteration” can easily turn into permanent state if this isn’t put on the table.

I will not be satisfied if this is the only solution to this problem, and I’ve made that point clear in all of our internal discussions.

[Ciryc_Lagrej]

Wow that is hilariously cruel.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Lord_Xiskogen

I mean, it has already happend, corporations marmite/pirate really like to Wardec has been given structures for the preparations of the changes.

They’ve still got time to unanchor those structures before the patch hits - I hope they enjoy the free money.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Rina_Cotte

Other wise we will get this… cons
Alliance or corps can place stru in deep space and pay rental fee.
Spam more useless stru to give weeks of endless reinforce game.

Here’s the thing - under this change, the structure ownership aspect becomes merely a barrier to entry, not something that’s actively part of the war. While they do talk about what happens if the only structure owned gets destroyed, that’s not really going to be common because deploying structures is easy and finding them is hard, for the reasons you noted.

For now, having any structure in space is good enough because the structure requirement is just a barrier to entry, and a means to create what are essentially social corps.

Now, if what I want and have suggested - victory conditions - are added to the game, and there’s a system where if you blow up the other guy’s “base” or “HQ structure” in order to win the war, then I would 100% advocate that those be limited to the area of space in which the war is active - you want to fight in highsec, drop a structure in highsec, etc.

That’s what I would like to see in the future if the structure requirement remains under whatever new system is created.

[Tora_Bushido]

That’s just one of the bad effects I predicted. There are many more. I predict another thing: in 6 months time, the industrials and traders want to have war decs buffed. Good luck with the markets.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Masuhari_Yakimoto

The change appears to be sadly, the elimination of all of the reasons for an actual war, with vengeance, revenge and punishment

None of those reasons have changed. You can still war dec for whatever reason you want - the only thing that has changed is who can be war decced. Before, you could war dec any non-NPC corporation. Now you can war dec any non-NPC corporation with a structure in space.

That’s it.

No other changes, at least to right now. All of the wonderfully fun reasons you listed for war deccing people will still be the same, and nothing has changed in regards to why folks choose to dec. Just who they can dec.

[Lord_Xiskogen]

@Dal_Shooth

EDIT: I guess CCP should have announced and released the structure transfer setting mechanic first then announced the wardec changes after. lol

Totally agree, and for compensation for their fault at work, I think CCP should also announce that corps that got stuff transferred to them should feel free to contact GM to have their ill-gotten structure(which is hard to get rid of) removed by the GM. So that they know they have the option to end the carnage.