Devblog: War Declaration Changes - The War Adjacent to Christmas

[Arrendis]

@Dom_Arkaral

Highsec is more of a FFA area vs low and null. Why?
-No major organized alliances
-people don’t give a rat’s ass about others
-people don’t want to team up
-people all want to own their own little patch
-people leave clutter all over the place
-Jita

All true.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

Isn’t it still the case that you cannot transfer a high-sec structure once there is a wardec, for the duration of the war?

[Priestess_Marie_Laveau]

@Elsebeth_Rhiannon

Isn’t it still the case that you cannot transfer a high-sec structure once there is a wardec, for the duration of the war?

That’s what people are saying but I thought that was THE major change.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Priestess_Marie_Laveau

That’s what people are saying but I thought that was THE major change.

I don’t see anything that suggests this will be changed in the devblog?

[Priestess_Marie_Laveau]

@Elsebeth_Rhiannon

I don’t see anything that suggests this will be changed in the devblog?

Then why is Marmite crying? I don’t see a nerf to WD’s. As far as I can tell, the new WD system is just as broken as ever.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Priestess_Marie_Laveau

Then why is Marmite crying? I don’t see a nerf to WD’s. As far as I can tell, the new WD system is just as broken as ever.

Without playing telepath for Marmites (they can speak for themselves), THE major change is that people who do not have structures cannot be decced at all. This effectively creates a means for corporations/alliances to opt out from being targets of wardecs with some inconvenience (by not owning structures), similarly to how individuals can now opt out with some inconvenience (by moving to an NPC corporation).

This causes problems in two cases as far as I can see:

1. You are pissed off at someone (eg a suicide ganker or a smacktalker or an ore-thieving carebear or whatnot) and want to take revenge. You cannot dec them unless they have a structure up somewhere, which leaves you with much less options.

2. You are a wardeccer corp whose MO is deccing as much weak prey that does not fight back as possible (e.g. newbie or social / pve corps without structures), and you are upset because now you cannot target everyone you happen to see.

For most people, even those who are currently in active HS wars, this alone won’t have much effect. We will see what the promised further changes will bring.

[Dracvlad]

You cannot transfer a structure once war decked, what Marmite wanted to do was transfer a structure to another entity and then war dec them because at the moment they can just do it and you cannot block it. So they are adding the ability to reject the transfer of structures to prevent it being misused by smart people like Tora.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

People seem to think any bad solution is justified by the problem.

Anyone who disagrees with the bad solution just gets the problem repeated back at them, as if any bad solution is justified.

All this is going to do is ■■■■ up structure ownership.

Those cry babies are still going to get ganked and are still going to quit.

You cannot change pixel cowardice with code.

[Circumstantial_Evidence]

It’s not just “people seem to think” … CCP has statistics showing them a big quitting problem. They are obviously willing to risk upsetting the sandbox a little, until they have worked out their next steps.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Circumstantial_Evidence

It’s not just “people seem to think” … CCP has statistics showing them a big quitting problem. They are obviously willing to risk upsetting the sandbox a little, until they have worked out their next steps.

You just did EXACTLY what I posted, you repeated the problem as if it justifies any bad solution.

Stop hiding behind the problem and discuss REAL SOLUTIONS.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Salt_Foambreaker

You just did EXACTLY what I posted, you repeated the problem as if it justifies any bad solution.

Stop hiding behind the problem and discuss REAL SOLUTIONS.

Pot, kettle, black?

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Elsebeth_Rhiannon

Pot, kettle, black?

That’s alright if you don’t comprehend.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Milana_Pollard

Actually, my main’s killboard was active much more recently, my main being Remiel Pollard. You’ll notice it wasn’t just active more recently, but was very very active for a long period of time, mostly in low sec, but also some high sec wars, especially with RVB. I know EVE, better than you think I do. I don’t know you, though. I do always find it amusing, though, when a wormholer or nulseccer thinks they know what’s best for high sec.

PA has everything to do with this change. This change is a replication of existing mechanics in Black Desert Online, a game which I have played but you clearly have not. Maybe you ought to check it out if for no other reason than to remove the stain of ignorance from that comment you just made. The simple fact is, the very concept of war illegibility came straight out of BDO.

As I understand it, the mechanics are different, and they aren’t tied to structures in BDO. I have played the game, but not much. It’s not my kind of game.

Even on your main, you’ve not recorded any kind of action in four months. So when you’re talking about player retention, you’ve already basically stopped playing. It’s not like this specific change had anything to do with your deciding you were done.

And again, no, PA had nothing to do with this change. This was something that has been talked about in EVE for months, and you can see in the CSM summit minutes that they discussed this as a possible solution, and it was before they made the announcement regarding the PA sale, and months before that sale was consummated.

PA isn’t involved in making specific in-game production decisions in EVE, to my knowledge. If they are, it’s a pretty well kept secret because none of us have seen any evidence of that.

@Milana_Pollard

By the way, just because you were ‘elected’ to a position that you think gives you power, doesn’t mean you have any. You did skip over one of my finer, but no less important, points: just because you think you had a say in this change, doesn’t mean you did. This was coming whether you had a say or not. That’s the nature of business.

The CSM as a whole has been asking for war decs to be studied and changes to be developed for years. They are finally doing it now, after the data they discovered following our requests to look at it made it clear something needed to be done. You can ask them if you don’t believe me, but this was something we pushed hard for - our #1 issue, actually - and they’re actively working on it. Do the math.

@Milana_Pollard

I’ll make you a deal, though. A bet, if you will. That by the end of the year of 2019, this won’t be the only mechanic directly transposed from Black Desert Online. Whatever you wager, I’ll double it if I lose. Don’t worry, just because I unsubbed, it doesn’t mean I gave away all my stuff to the first forum poster who asked. Oh and do I have some stuff.

Also, I don’t care what Fozzie has stated. History has recorded his statements and ‘changes’ to the game as being somewhat mediocre at best. “The first stage of a revamp” says absolutely nothing about the rest of the revamp, and frankly, if this is only the first stage, then it doesn’t bode well for the rest.

I’m not going to make any bets with folks over things that I can directly influence (or anything else, for that matter). It wouldn’t be sporting and it’s against the EULA anyway. Regardless, I don’t doubt that EVE will look at what BDO is doing, and they will look at what EVE is doing, because that’s the nature of all MMOs and MMO companies. If something works, the others copy it.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@AJ_Osiris

So can you get anyone to finally address the issue of only having the Corp option as a means of being able to share our assets between characters and accounts?
With soooo many “new features” constantly being made to game, like The Agency, I would think that we could Finally get a solution to this problem, Such As, a simple Secured Hangar that we can access with any character via a simple password, like we can do already with anchored secured containers.
You can even take all the damn credit!!

This is one of Aryth’s top requests.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Dom_Arkaral

Just going to drop this here to back up Milana

It’s obvious that he thinks he has any authority over CCP, despite being nothing more than a pawn in the latter’s eyes.

CCP/PA’s catering to the masses will be what ultimately kills the niche of EVE, but hey at least they’ll have milked it til its death

I’m not saying that anything I do will have influence. I’m saying what I’m going to do. That’s my job.

Just because I demand something doesn’t mean I get it, any more than when I demand Congress do something or the White House do something they do it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. But I always make my voice heard on behalf of my constituents, and that’s what I’m going to do here, just like I’ve done on other issues.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Salt_Foambreaker

That’s alright if you don’t comprehend.

I understand very clearly what you are saying and as I have said above myself, I don’t think this change alone is going to change all that much, myself either.

My point is that you are not really discussing any actual options here either, you are just telling other people to STFU. Or did I miss a suggestion from you? (In which case I apologize, it’s a freaking threadnaught by now.)

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Dom_Arkaral

Not really
2 bashes in a weeks time (99% of the time) is not good content

We’ve been having pretty good content around a structure bash this week.

[Sugar_Smacks]

People who are complaining are only doing it at this point because their gameplay has been reduced on probably one of the few ways they can actually pvp.

It has nothing to do about what is better for EvE, because this has been clearly studied and there are plenty of figures that all show this change is badly needed.

I mean if you had an example even one about how making life harder helps anyone, but you don’t, in fact I have examples like Ultima Online that completely refute that idea.

But you don’t want truth or whats right, you want it your way, and your going to whine and complain all the way. But you cant make me care, because I know your lying, and your just not worth caring about.

[Winston_Onzo]

in @Brisc_Rubal we trust

[Milana_Pollard]

As you understand it? I haven’t stuttered, have I? I’ve actually played the game, and I understand both extremely well. If you actually want a claim to understanding, go and check it out yourself.

“And again, no, PA had nothing to do with this change. This was something that has been talked about in EVE for months”

And how the everliving ■■■■ do you know that PA hasn’t been influencing CCP devs behind the scenes without you knowing a thing about it? Do you really think CCP tell you everything, discuss everything with you and the other CSM members? Are you that naive? Or are you that prickled with pride in your power that you really believe you’re worth that kind of attention? The deal between PA and CCP has been on the table for a lot longer than ‘months’ so don’t give me this tripe as if you know exactly what’s going on. All we can do is assume, and I’m afraid the evidence supports my own assumptions a lot more strongly than yours. None of YOU have seen any evidence of it, but none of YOU have played BDO, clearly. I have. I’m seeing the evidence as plain as a cloudless day. You should listen to people that have a wider, more experienced perspective than you. It might help alleviate that ignorance problem you have.

“The CSM as a whole…” isn’t some kind of monolith and rarely actually represents a portion of the playerbase that could be considered a majority, or any portion of the playerbase that could be considered a community. You seem to be representing players that were always going to quit anyway. You’re one of those people that thinks “more players is better” as if those players shouldn’t have to adapt to the game, and should be whoever comes along. The problem is, the game was originally made for a certain type of player, and that type of player is in short supply. If the developers have decided to change the game in order to expand the audience, then it is quite simply no longer EVE Online in anything but name. The game is dead. Done. Finished. Fortunately, I have pizza and GOT reruns, and the EVE forum PVP is still pretty fun.

“I’m not going to make any bets with folks over things that I can directly influence…”

And there it is. This is what I’ve been talking about. There’s nothing you can directly influence. You really need to get it through your thick head that YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN THE MATTER EVER. You are just a mouthpiece for CCP to throw into the lions den so they can wash their hands of it. This isn’t a job, mate. You’re not getting paid for it, ergo it’s not a job. You’re a glorified herald, and you don’t even get to carry a banner or ride a horse.