Devblog: War Declaration Changes - The War Adjacent to Christmas

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Arrendis

Sure. Like I said: If it’s a stopgap, great. If it’s the foundation of something where the only way to shoot back at someone who doesn’t have an anchored structure is to gank them… that’s going to be a problem, all on its own.

And that’s why I will push to make sure that there is some way to fight back in those situations.

[Max_Deveron]

and there we have it, the core of his reasoing…

Yes, ganking is a tool…and it doe not need to be more mainstream than it already is.

I would agree, CSM and CCP need to be sure this is a stopgap measure for now, not the foundation of a new mechanics system

[Salt_Foambreaker]

So after all this time they did what they announced at Vegas, even with all the feedback.

3 blind mice.

[Chestnut_Yanumano]

@Brisc_Rubal

So I agree the changes are in the right direction however for future inputs from the CSM side of things. Solving the HS moon mining thing i believe can be as simple as applying a suspect status to anyone who mines moon rocks off a structure that they are not in the Alliance/Corp. This provides a Risk/Reward factor that creates content.

The next thing would be to expand of the structure requirements to forcing War Dec groups and those who wish to Dec another group have a Citadel (Astra, Fort, Keep) in the Region, or even in the constellation, and the war to only effect THAT area of space vs all over EVE. Kind of like incursions so to speak. The goal here would be to make Wars focused around controlling an area of space vs just waiting for nerds to go to a trade hub.

Additionally, im not good on the math part but keep the current cost to War Dec someone the same but for every week the war continues have the cost exponentially increase over time. If the Dec is worth it the attacker will pay the price to make it happen.

Just some thoughts since my Alliance and i do this as our game play

[commander_aze]

Other areas of space exist or duels work too…

[Arrendis]

@Chestnut_Yanumano

a structure that they are not in the Alliance/Corp

ACL. Better to use the ACL.

[Chestnut_Yanumano]

yea or that i agree

[BIade_Runner]

@Brisc_Rubal

You guys are going to have to find a new way to kill shuttles now.

[Nasim_Noud]

What will happen: everyone leaves their NPC corp to save on taxes into their very own 1 man corp. Structures will be in 1 man corps. Ganking will increase. Highbears will cry for full PvP ban in highsec. Eventually, CCP will make highsec a non-PvP zone.

Quote me in 2022 for this.

(and yes, i don’t Omega my accounts anymore because of changes like these. You’re going the wrong way CCP)

[Chainsaw_Plankton]

@Querns

Folks figure out pretty quickly that they should keep their freighters in an NPC corporation, today, to avoid just this.

yea I’d just expect people in 1bil+ ships (not to mention the occasional jump freighter) to figure it out quicker.

[Vol_Arm_OOO]

@Samira_Kernher

Clearly not, with changes like this. As it stands, players in EVE will now have one of the bigger means of retaliation and consequence for their actions removed from the game. If another corporation comes and steals the moon ore belt your corporation created, you cannot dec them unless they have a structure. If a corporation suicide ganks you, you cannot dec them unless they have a structure. If a corporation acts in some other way detrimental to your corporation and its goals, such as interpersonal conflicts or roleplay conflicts, you cannot dec them unless they have a structure. They are immune to consequence unless they choose not to be, yet continue to have quite many ways with which to impose themselves on others if they choose.

And of those groups that do have a structure, the inclination in all of this will be to put those corporations in a secret alt corp, or use public structures. Assuming they even need structures to begin with, which many corporations in high sec do not.

War decs needed changes. Everyone agrees that war decs needed changes. But what they needed was counterplay. They needed to provide people who don’t want to be warred with means of ending an undesired war, through actual in-space activities (thus both encouraging fewer ‘wars without kills’ while also still giving players an avenue to end a war), and temporary war immunities (to avoid ending a war and then just being immediately warred again, or to briefly protect new newb corps populated with only newb members). Not being immune to war completely, and not making wars yet another n+1 game where the larger corp dictates who wins the structure battle and smaller corps can continue to get ■■■■■■.

This is not the right way to fix war decs. It is yet one more change that is taking the idea of consequences-for-actions out of EVE.

This is so spot on. What really bothers me about the change is that it again chips away at the idea that eve is a pvp-sandbox. It was bad enough that people in npc corps were immune from pvp with the exception of ganking, now everyone is going to be immune except for those ceo’s of single player holding corps. I’m not saying war decs were in a good place - only that this “solution” is worse then the problem.

[BIade_Runner]

Move in low sec or null for plenty of PVP cowards. All this tears for getting soft targets away from you are so delicious

[Peter_Yurgin]

@Brisc_Rubal

They spent more than six months researching, and they got views from a lot of folks, including the war dec community. They had all the documents the War Dec Project had compiled and written, and Falcon has been in that discord at least as long as I have.

Then why not use the time a Eve Vegas to tell people where they got this from? They spent the entire section on this telling us there was a problem and giving us stats on a problem that everyone already had the agreement there was a problem. This was a form of that propaganda structure brainstorm. You know how hard it will be to find a customs office that a war dec corp will have to be able to continue on what they already do already? The tax rate was the main driving factor for players to start corps. The tax rate was there to gain the benefits of not being able to be war dec’d. A revamp of the war dec tab would have been a better first step. It get complicated to tell who is at war as an ally in other wars and there is no continuing notification that you are still war dec’d for players that don’t play everyday. A lot of the times these high-sec war mercs are on opposite sides of different conflicts and could be used against them, but it is too hard to go down their respected lists and determine that someone who is at war with you is already at war with another large target that you could coordinate with to team up against.

[Nasim_Noud]

@BIade_Runner

Move in low sec or null for plenty of PVP cowards. All this tears for getting soft targets away from you are so delicious

In return, highbears should not be able to sell their stuff to people who PvP… 90% of your profits are directly tied to PvP losses. Its what keeps the economy and all EVE running.

But hey, the highbear ofc knows it all way better… clever boy.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Chestnut_Yanumano

So I agree the changes are in the right direction however for future inputs from the CSM side of things. Solving the HS moon mining thing i believe can be as simple as applying a suspect status to anyone who mines moon rocks off a structure that they are not in the Alliance/Corp. This provides a Risk/Reward factor that creates content.

The only concern I would have with this is whether the rocks are tagged as belonging to a specific structure or corp. If they aren’t, then there would have to be a way to do that. If that’s possible and not a pain in the ass, then I think that’s probably a workable solution to that problem.

To be clear, though, that’s a problem that’s outside the scope of the war dec thing - that problem currently exists already, so I don’t know if CCP is going to want to lump that fix in with what will already be a major change.

[Peter_Yurgin]

@Chestnut_Yanumano

So I agree the changes are in the right direction however for future inputs from the CSM side of things. Solving the HS moon mining thing i believe can be as simple as applying a suspect status to anyone who mines moon rocks off a structure that they are not in the Alliance/Corp. This provides a Risk/Reward factor that creates content.

Dumb idea. As dumb as the timer was with abyssal space in level 4-5s. It destroyed anyone in highsec doing these levels when they could get a blue null-sec alliance and just farm the same ones there without the timer problem and in lower patrolled space. You do not own moons in high-sec, Concord does. They just let you farm them and everyone else in concord’s protection.

[Nana_Skalski]

@CCP_Falcon

Bellicose

Please resign it. May be something like this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/uploads/short-url/7Xl4pz9whyCtjSMnHam6ZT5g6FA.jpeg

[Max_Deveron]

@Peter_Yurgin

but it is too hard to go down their respected lists and determine that someone who is at war with you is already at war with another large target that you could coordinate with to team up against.

actually no it is not…
what is more difficult is organizing with others against a singular target…
if every single corp war’dec by single entity on a 100 wardec list…that merc group wouldnt be in that bussiness of blanket dec’ing for long…

But nope, nobody wants to do that shrug so here we are.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Max_Deveron

With moons, characters not on the access list of the owning corp should go suspect for touching the rocks and allow for some sort of counterplay (Ie shooting them in the face for theft)

This would suck the big one.

Suspect flag killed ninja-salvaging and can flipping. You cannot expect someone to try and mine in a barge whilst suspect. You effectively kill off mining in other peoples moon belts.

[Max_Deveron]

@Peter_Yurgin

Dumb idea. As dumb as the timer was with abyssal space in level 4-5s. It destroyed anyone in highsec doing these levels when they could get a blue null-sec alliance and just farm the same ones there without the timer problem and in lower patrolled space. You do not own moons in high-sec, Concord does. They just let you farm them and everyone else in concord’s protection.

Please dude, if you dont what your talking about then just please, dont.
Concord doenst own anything…
In fact in Lore related information Sukuuvestaa and Kaalkiota own 76% of all Caldari State planets and moons between them… but as far as corp stuff goes in the State, they lease everything out to lesser (non-Mega corps), which means yes you can technically own the moon and the belt your moon rig creates.