Discussion Of The Implications Of Niarja's Invasion

[MB_ThePhotographer]

@Foggy_Bernstein

I’ve been playing combat flight sims as well as regular flight sims on top of having a private pilots licence for more than a decade and I sure as hell wouldn’t climb in the cockpit of an F-16. Or an A380.

I bet you would do better than you expect.

[Aramatheia]

@Senyu_Takashi

EDIT: CCP once sent a fleet composed of entirely high sec players into 0.0 and we all remember how that ended.

yeah i remember that cause it was co organised by the null forces it wasnt just a sudden arrival into null sec, they knew in advance and had prepared entire fleets. I was around during that event.

@Merin_Ryskin

I doubt it. Most highsec players are way too lazy and risk-averse to ever do anything like that. They’d just sit in their dwindling supply of highsec farming space and whine on the forums about how unfair it all is.

well, theres been alot of systems saved during this thing, where the mechanics have been favourable and all that has yielded was a net zero. I think you’d find if there was actual gains to be had on both fronts that participation would skyrocket. Sure not everyone would, the player whos only trained into industry is going to be pointless in a fight but with some basic fleet control any ccombat pilot can lock and shoot targets and if they know theres a chance to flip a system and have thier name essentially engrave in its conquest who wouldnt? I was considering getting a pilot in but in the end didnt bother because there is no reward.

You say about “whining” well there actually is a valid reason this time because only 1 side actually takes ground, the other side net zeros across the board, or loses. This isnt about every side gets a trophy this is about even if you win you get nothing, “oh but the other guys won and you lost a system bye!”.

Also i get it theres some people who arent happy when they get ganked in highsec, they will get used to it eventually or leave. Even as a primarily high sec player myself i dont feel bad if they go. hey its one less pilot to bounce into “my” site later down the track. But you know its 1 less pilot to potentially logi you in a pvp battle one day too, or to be in a titan taking system sovs and all that. probably not though but anyway.

Im not saying high sec pvp should go, im not saying that null should have its stuff nerfed. I am saying A its a sandbox go play in your corner and quit spitting on everyone else who doesnt play sand your way and B this event was broken and biased from the beginning because 1 side can win the other side and net zero even if they “win” which is a bad and rubbish system.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Aramatheia

Imagine if high sec players had the capacity to fleet up and flip low sec systems to high. You’d end up with a complete remapping of the galaxy as the low/null forces tried to outpace the highsec fleets whilst trying to stop flips happening on both sides as well. THAT would have been an amazing event with all players involved contesting for viable and meaningfull rewards.

If hardly any hi-sec players could be bothered to save Niarja, despite all it meant to them, what makes you think they’d get off their arses when it comes to flipping lowsec?

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Lucas_Kell

And that’s what those players want, and that’s fine.

I genuinely have no idea how to respond to someone so ignorant of game design that they think it’s a good thing for EVE to have menial PvE where you never experience any meaningful decisions, story or character progression, adversity or risk of failure, tests of skill or reflexes, or anything else beyond “press F1, receive ISK”.

@Foggy_Bernstein

I’m backing Lucas on this one and hoping Merin is never in a situation where he needs to take over the yoke in real life.

Hi, actual pilot and aircraft owner, and flight sims are nowhere near as mindless as EVE’s PvE. Flying a real-time simulated IFR airline flight through complex airspace and procedures is a slow-paced activity but it’s still an engaging one with decisions to be made. Sitting in a belt mining in EVE is, in the absence of players, pressing a single button and then going AFK until your ore hold is full.

@Aramatheia

I think you’d find if there was actual gains to be had on both fronts

IOW, Niarja wasn’t important enough for highsec players to be motivated to do something about it when they had the chance. The only thing they’re willing to do is whine on the forums and beg CCP to reverse the change so they can have their easy-mode hauling back.

[Aramatheia]

from what has been reported there was no way of stopping it from flipping anyway and going out and doing stuff in other systems means nothing because when you win, you win nothing. its like coming first in a race but you get nothing, you actually lose cause of all the fuel and resources you spent getting there and competing. Giving no way of actually making systems change upwards is of course going to stump the focus. Now imagine if edemcom victory meant niarja went up to 1.0…

its all speculation I’ll admit because edemcom victory isnt a victory so all this is just an assumption and a “i wonder if” scenario.

Ask yourself though since you are convinced that “hisec” people just wouldnt care in any capacity. What harm would there be if systems could be changed UP in sec status? By the voices of some people here not one system at all would have changed up. It seems the objective is to change down without even ANY risk of loss in return.

So about that “risk adverse” playerbase again?

[Foggy_Bernstein]

@Merin_Ryskin

flight sims are nowhere near as mindless as EVE’s PvE.

My very first post on this forum back somewhere around 2006 was asking why people thought they were elite PVPers in a rock/paper/scissor game. The combat flight sim I was playing at the time had more coding in a single bullets trajectory and damage than an entire battle in EVE.

And here we are 14 years later and people still think they’re something special because they can hit F1 when their FC tells them to. No, brother, Checkers takes more skill than your elite PVP.

So stop acting like you’re all that, because you aren’t.

EVE is a simple game for simple minds. My simple mind likes me to waste hours building ships for your simple mind to replace. My simple mind likes fighting other simple minds with one hand on the mouse and a slice of pizza in the other while watching Netflix on my PiP.

When I want something to kick up my adrenaline and leave me shaking and in a cold sweat, I join a full real battle in a WW2 combat flight sim and attempt to protect my bombers on the eastern front.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

you are so full of ■■■■
eve combat is one of the most exciting in ANY game i ever played
just killed the number one pilot of the Fraternity
my heart is pumping
stop spreading lies ok
not all of us are null bears f1 monkeys
and btw if you want to talk all the ■■■■ you talk at least have the decency of using the char “you use to shot things” in the forum
else your zkill is empty and you must please STFU about pvp ty

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Aramatheia

its like coming first in a race but you get nothing, you actually lose cause of all the fuel and resources you spent getting there and competing.

Is a bad comparison.

You win by not losing.

Think of a boxing champion defending their title, and if they don’t fight, they forfeit.

The only difference is that hi-sec players never earned the title in the first place, it was given to them. And most of them, rather than defend it, forfeited.

Sure you can speculate/dream about hi-sec players trying to invade low sec. But they couldn’t even be bothered the defend ‘one of the most important systems in the game’, nor can they be bothered to defend themselves from wardecs or ganks. You think they’re gonna invade random low sec systems? Can’t wait to see you try.

[Dracvlad]

@Daichi_Yamato

But they couldn’t even be bothered the defend ‘one of the most important systems in the game

I wonder if you would like to sit back and think about this statement, it shows a massive error in your thinking. There is a small subset of hisec players that used Niarja every day, a very limited few that haul between it for contracts. Most of the people passing through were nullsec logistic alts.

Obviously you had people operating in Domain and moving stuff into Jita. For people who are operating in Caldari space having them removed as competition like this is a good thing.

Fact is losing Niarja was not losing at all for many. To make such a sweeping generalisation about the impact to hisec as a whole is wrong. There was no interest in fighting for that system, in fact I have benefits.

For my part I wanted Niarja to fall, the reason above is one, all those people in Amarr space are going to have issues competing in terms of ISK and time, next up is the shake up on the hubs, a disrupting of the easy kill brigade around Niarja which is funny for me, though it will be replaced by another set of easy kill players and new camps will be set up elsewhere which add to the costs of the Amarr players, they would be better of concentrating on Amarr as a hub…
Niarja will always have people moving through, so it will be camped, but I have seen some other systems taken by Trigs which are now totally empty, and over time clever players will be able to move through. I have to wait a bit, see how that camp develops, Kaap is a regional gate and is big so difficult to camp, there are two entry systems from the other side. I have lots of bookmarks in that system. I have no real concerns in moving through once things settle down. Fact is it is a big win for me as a hisec player.

I also think that it offers more opportunity for smaller producers to find niches. But hisec is not some monolithic group at all.

[Solstice_Projekt]

Mate …

When the status quo is threatened …
… and someone wishes to preserve it …
… then preventing change is a win.

[Meridan_Night]

There you go: safe route autopilot. Works again.

[Meridan_Night]

I don’t know why it behaves like that. It worked for me initially, then didn’t work last night, and now it works again. Bizarre.

[Siegfried_Tahl]

@Merin_Ryskin

I genuinely have no idea how to respond to someone so ignorant of game design that they think it’s a good thing for EVE to have menial PvE where you never experience any meaningful decisions, story or character progression, adversity or risk of failure, tests of skill or reflexes, or anything else beyond “press F1, receive ISK”.

I genuinely have no idea how to respond to someone so ignorant of game design that they think that players in a game with full drop are going to run PVE with adversity and risk of failure. All PVE in EVE is either solved or dead.

You plan and prepare, learn your spawns and triggers, and then “press F1, receive ISK”. There is no other PVE in EVE for a reason. Burner missions solved. T5 Abyss solved. Drifter escalations in C6 solved. FOBs solved. Those who do not possess skills and reflexes simply do not engage in any of it.

You don’t PVE, do you? The only thing you do is whine on the forums and beg CCP to change PVE when you don’t do it yourself and know nothing about it.

@tutucox_Khamsi

eve combat is one of the most exciting in ANY game i ever played

ANY game i ever played
game i ever
i

Haven’t played many games have you?

[Skip_Lorry]

@Merin_Ryskin

There’s a difference between a “chilled out game” and a task so utterly menial that the only reason everyone isn’t using bots to do it is because CCP would ban them for it. Very, very few people are going to have any interest in “press F1 to activate mining lasers then go AFK” without the much more engaging activities that the minerals they obtain are used for.

And yet without someone performing this menial task, there’d be no other engaging activities.

You sound like an American, enjoying your guacamole salad, while looking down on the migrant laborers who pick the lettuce, tomato and avocado you’re enjoying.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Siegfried_Tahl

Haven’t played many games have you?

i have 600+ games on steam
and I’m a game collector
i have more than 300 original games in physical media and many consoles
had computers since de 386
yah i played a lot of games

[Solstice_Projekt]

@tutucox_Khamsi

i have 600+ games on steam
and I’m a game collector
i have more than 300 original games in physical media and many consoles
had computers since de 386
yah i played a lot of games

@Siegfried_Tahl

I believe what he’s referring to is the experience he has in EVE …
… which he really can’t have in any other game.

EVE’s combat can be quite thrilling, technical and surprising, actually …
… unless you only ever press F1 anyway, or sit and camp at gates.

In any case … I’ve done plenty of PvE. I concurr, it’s too easy and too boring.

Glad it’s going to be replaced eventually.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Siegfried_Tahl

I genuinely have no idea how to respond to someone so ignorant of game design that they think that players in a game with full drop are going to run PVE with adversity and risk of failure.

I have no idea how I’m getting all these accusations of hating and insulting PvE players when you say something this nasty about all of them and apparently it’s just fine.

And I notice that you ignored the rest of the things in my list of engaging aspects that PvE lacks. Even if you assume that all PvE players are completely terrified of loss and will not participate in any PvE activity that can not be solved and farmed with 100% safety PvE could still have some of those other things and make it less of “press F1, receive ISK”.

@Skip_Lorry

And yet without someone performing this menial task, there’d be no other engaging activities.

Why are you starting with the assumption that PvE must be a menial task? Why aren’t you lobbying CCP to make it more interesting and appealing for its own sake, not a masochistic slog that you’re required to do if you want ISK or materials to do the interesting stuff?

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@tutucox_Khamsi

had computers since de 386

Young whippersnapper.

6502, Z80 and Arm2

[Solstice_Projekt]

*triggered*
I’ve written a 6502 virtual machine just recently!

*untriggered*

[Skip_Lorry]

@Merin_Ryskin

Why are you starting with the assumption that PvE must be a menial task?

You used that term. Then you used that as an excuse to call miners lazy and stupid.