Diversity survey concerns

Communications Center General Discussion
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Please can we have an intelligent discussion here, don’t rant and get the conversation shut down

I have a few concerns with the survey, there was no question asking if we think change is needed from a diversity perspective, there were also no places where we could put a comment.

Basically, it feels like it was written by someone who wants to push an agenda, the survey had no way to disagree with the questions,

Like the other poster i come here to get away from the politics of the real world, please don’t bring this to the game

Are most players guys? Yes, so cater to them.

Do you want more women in the game, sure so add a small amount of content and see how it goes, if that increases the % of women players, then add more content taking into consideration the current %, add content for the people playing your game

Based on the % of players who fall into the non male/female category, promote to them, if that is 1% then by all means provide 1% content to them and make sure it is optional for the 99% of your population who don’t fall into the category (worldwide the % of people who are in this category is 0.69%)

Please don’t start forcing a political agenda on me, with such a large noise worldwide about such a small % of the population, it is totally a political agenda

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or the highly illegal question about “hiring more women developers”, let me remind everyone that hiring (or not hiring) someone based on sex, age, religion or political association is illegal in many places and discriminatory. Please hire your developers based on competency.

And don’t get me wrong, i actually preferred when CCP Seagul was CEO over CCP Hilmar.

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If CCP wants to have its own Bud Light moment, let them? At least something interesting will happen. We haven’t had any excitement in the game in almost three years, since the Triglavian invasion went down. EVE is like the video game equivalent of an assembly line at a car factory at this point. You log in, and it’s the same:

  • 8,000 boring, cowardly carebears grinding rocks and missions in high-sec
  • 4,000 characters sitting idle and AFK since downtime
  • 3,000 Chinese prison RMT farm Gila bots grinding bounties in null-sec
  • 1,000 spammers posting HyperNet and referral link garbage in local
  • 200 psychopath griefers perma-camping Jita and Tama to shoot clueless, APing shuttles/haulers
  • 50 basement-dwelling virgin gankers dunking freighters in Uedama and Gheth
  • revolving door of new players quitting after 30 minutes to post a negative Steam review

Maybe now we’ll have some kind of new controversy to bullshit about on the forums.

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I’m having issues with answering this question:

  1. Which of the following need to be focused on in order to the make the video gaming industry a more inclusive and representative place for all players? Please select your top 4.
  • Diverse Representation of women/non-binary players in video games
  • Inclusive Game Design
  • Increase in Women/non-binary Game Developers
  • Speaking out against unwelcome “industry norms”
  • Growth of eSports
  • More women/non-binary Gaming Content Creators
  • Wider range of Game Themes
  • Shift in Marketing Strategies
  • Increase in Empowerment and Advocacy
  • More Collaborative Gaming Communities

First of all, the question itself does not make any sense and forces an agenda - which is a rookie mistake when creating a survey, unless it’s pure propaganda.

Which of the following need to be focused on in order to the make the video gaming industry a more inclusive and representative place for all players?

The real answer is: It is already inclusive and representative place for all players.

Diverse Representation of women/non-binary players in video games

Games can be viewed as interactive stories, with more or less story telling. Even RTSs (ex. Starcraft) have a story. When writing a story, the author is trying to create characters which are best fit for the role, and gender plays an important role. If you force introduction of characters based on diversity quota, your story loses its dynamics and becomes a complete nonsense. Just ask Hollywood studios, they are well aware of that.

In EVE, the balance is already there. There are both male and female NPC characters in the lore which are very important for the story. There are also agents with names which are better suited for the opposite gender - making them effectively non-binary. Players are also free to create male, female and non-binary characters - and it was always like that.

To me personally, you are either a white, blue, purple or red icon on overview and that’s where it ends… Ok… sometimes I may call you “primary”. I couldn’t care less who or what is behind the keyboard… You might even be a well trained kangaroo, or a Klingon, and I will treat you as equal to everyone else.

Inclusive Game Design

Game design should be based on core ideas for of game you are making. If your core idea for the game significantly attracts one demographic group, you can’t just throw in features which will cater to other demographics. The only things you will accomplish are wasted development time on unused features or, in extreme cases, frustration of your primary demographic.

Increase in Women/non-binary Game Developers

Employment should and must be based on meritocracy, regardless of sex, race and/or other properties.

Speaking out against unwelcome “industry norms”

I don’t even know what those would be.

Growth of eSports

The only eSports I’ve followed in my whole life was the Alliance tournament. All I can see and all I am willing to see are tacklers, logis, DPS and utility ships. Again, I don’t care who or what is behind the keyboard.

More women/non-binary Gaming Content Creators

Content creators are separated into two categories: good ones (interesting, funny, informative, knowledgeable, charismatic,…) and bad ones (boring, misinformed, producing low quality content). If your content is good, I’ll follow you. It has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of content creators of some specific demographics. It’s again all about meritocracy.

Wider range of Game Themes

Some game themes are more attractive to some demographics and less attractive to others. But, you also have to take into account that gaming, as an activity, is more attractive to males. Answering the question “why?” requires much more space and time than it’s available to me while replying to a forum post. This is the only answer which I can select for the survey question, because theoretically speaking, if you manage to find a game theme or genre which will attract other demographics than males - then go for it. Make and publish that game. Gaming should be available to everyone.

Shift in Marketing Strategies

Hahaha… No. If your game mainly attracts one demographic and you are running marketing campaigns to attract others - you will just have failed marketing campaigns.

Increase in Empowerment and Advocacy

Empowerment and advocacy… where? In a video game? I play video games to get away from politics, lobbying, propaganda, advocacy, raising awareness’s,… When I jump into EVE, I want to forget about all real world problems and play with Internet spaceships. I do not want to be bombarded with the same problems I’m trying to free my mind from. If you, as a game developer or marketing expert, feel that you can do something for empowerment and advocacy - then by all means do it… join a real life organization which deals with these issues and provide help where it’s wanted and needed. Games are NOT the place for it.

More Collaborative Gaming Communities

It’s again about meritocracy - either you are a valuable member of a community who contributes, or you are not. Regardless of who or what you are.

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Great response, and totally agree that this is the perfect example and illustration of my concern, of a question where you are forced to agree that there is a problem with inclusivity that needs to be addressed, where is the option for “I don’t think any changes need to be made”
Making every option one that agrees with the story that the survey is trying to tell, is not a survey it is a box checking exercise

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Oh… and one more very important thing.

If the game is not performing on the market as expected - the cause can not be found by observing the amount of males, females or others. The only way to increase the player base is to observe in-game demographics: miners, suicide gankers, nullsec players, highsec players, factional warfare players, wormhole players, industrialists… Advocating for gender diversity will not help solve catastrophic results from the in-game Monthly Economic reports - only game features and working on game balance will.

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Borrowing some wisdom from Jordan Peterson, “males are generally more interested in things than they are people, and females are more interested in people than they are things.”

So with that logic, if CCP wants to attract more female gamers, they should have game play that females enjoy. In other words, avatars and other interactable environments that can be described as cute and lend themselves well to social interaction.

Also consider genres that are popular with women, such as candy crush (from years ago.) IIrc a lot of differnt word games were pretty popular in that demographic as well.

Personally I think that has more to do with it being a mobile game that doesn’t take a ton of time to play, than the pure theme of it. So it would be wise to try to develop for smaller windows of available time to play. (So a mobile game that can either be paused, or has short gameplay loops, 5-10 minutes.)

In short, more women aren’t going to start playing EVE because there’s an equal representation of female developers. No one cares unless such decisions actively hurt development.

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Increasing trans representation in the NPC-o-sphere is definitely going to do wonders for bringing in literally tens of thousands of new players into the game.

Never mind the fact that when CCP actually tries to do something nice, like giving players Omega time for 1 PLEX per day, the public sentiment is like:

image
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And they’re not trying to fix that problem first. I’m sure that some non-binary, Caitlyn Jenner-looking NPC giving out level 3 “inclusivity” missions is going to solve all the problems that CCP’s marketing department hasn’t been able to solve for over a decade.

This isn’t even about “woke” versus “non-woke.” CCP just doesn’t understand. But they’re so desperate to get off the slide that they’re trying to grab anything within reach to try to slow down their descent into the abyss.

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That is very heavy, I fall to see the picture you are putting in my mind.

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I’m just surprised one of the questions isn’t…

’ Are you bored of listening to the exact same background music for 2 years ?’

( Though I do like the ‘Precious Ore’ piece…weird that its associated with mining as its the most ‘victory’ sounding piece. But the other pieces are mind numbing )

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You call your good friend a psychopath?

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The point is, if CCP wants to bring more female gamers into the game, they need a game that delivers what female gamers like. Obviously we have women who play EVE, but they’re not anywhere near the average gamer. For that matter, the male EVE player isn’t either.

EVE is a pretty nerdy game, all things considered, so if they want to go more mainstream with it they’ll need to do things that attract those players.

Pandering to a group of people isn’t going to bring those people into the game, if the game isn’t something they’d enjoy playing. So skip the pandering, and do the work necessary to bring in more people.

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I have a few concerns with the survey.
I had hard time answering some questions honestly, and in some questions I couldnt find an option that best describes my view on the matter.

  1. How much do you agree with the following statement?
    The EVE Online community is welcoming.

Help Channel is; High-Sec is indifferent/friendly; Low-Sec and below is Death (and it’s ok because it supposed to be like this by design).

  1. How much do you agree with the following statement?
    The EVE Online community is inclusive.

Not sure what you mean by that. I think it is safe to assume that nobody really cares meaning they will play along with you if you’re ok personality or wreck your ship and pod you in Low/Null or allaince wars - disregarding any RL features or conditions somebody may or may not have, because it’s a game and this is how it’s played.

  1. How much do you agree with the following statement?
    The EVE Online community is safe.

I assume this question is about verbal langauage “of hate” and stuff. Yes, I completely agree, the community IS safe, nobody will verbally attack anybody for whatever reason, mainly because there is no need for that. If you’re a jerk, they will hunt you down and wreck/pod you without saying a word, if game rules permit. Because it’s a game and this is the rules we agreen on by clicking “Undock” button.

  1. To what extent do you believe EVE Online promotes inclusivity and representation with regards to gender diversity in its character creation options?

There are only two genders: male and female, and Eve Online perfectly included both genders in character creation options :slight_smile: Eve Online has no obligation to “promote” anything except gaming services it provides.

  1. How comfortable do you feel asking other players for help in EVE Online?

What sort of question is that? I do not look into myself and reflect on how comfortable I am to ask somebody for help. I JUST DO. I just type in words in English Help channel or Local :slight_smile: I am very, very comfortably typing in words.

  1. On a scale of 0 to 10, where 0= Extremely Unlikely and 10= Extremely Likely, how likely are you to continue playing EVE Online in the future?

10, Very Likely, unless somebody will take their time heavily incorporating this woke stuff about genders, diversity, inclusion, and so on. Look, this agenda is getting old and boring, hype passed and subsiding, no need to kick a dead horse here in Eve.

  1. What one video game do you think represents women in a diverse and realistic way? Please list below.

Black Desert Online.

  1. What percent of your New Eden friends would you say are men? Write a number between 1 and 100 below.

I dont have friends, and all of them are Real Men. Even women.

  1. Do you watch/follow any women/non-binary gamers online (Twitch, IG, Youtube, etc.)?

Look, it’s not about man or woman, it’s about Quality of content. The answer is “Yes, IF content is of ok quality”. Zepla, Hazelnutty, Kiah of Fire, Crabbytron, Miss Vadams - to name a few. Very OK quality of content. There may be others, but I’m sort of limited with my time playing games and watching youtubes, I have a life, you know.

  1. Who is your favorite woman/non-binary gamer to watch/follow?

Asmongold.

  1. Which of the following need to be focused on in order to the make the video gaming industry a more inclusive and representative place for all players?

What do you mean “more inclusive”? Buy the game and play it - you’re included and represented.
Look, a percentage of “professionally offended and repressed by toxic masculine culture” - is very small, they’re just very loud which makes think they’re numerous. If you bend over to stupid demands of those 0.1%, I dare to assume you may or may not risk to annoy and drive off a much bigger chunk of playerbase, who either dont care and just playing the game, or had enough of this woke agenda forcefully pushed onto, and leave. You win 0.1%, you lose 20%. Count well.

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yeah poorly worded questions and a concerning waste of time. new eden is brutal, harden the ■■■■ up

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When I started, the demographics were something CCP used to brag about. Meh…

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Would the new epic arc story present itself to new audiences?

The YouTube video from CSM Mike suggests a new story arc is in the pipeline.

PS I hope I hadn’t miss spoke on that btw

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lol :smiley:

I don’t know anything about that, but it’s a waste of time if they want to make an epic arc appeal to women. They need a broader game that appeals to women first, then they can do some character driven storyline if they so desire.

In EVE the character models are effectively ships. In other words, they’re things. Men prefer things more than women.

Since women, in general, prefer people over things, CCP needs gameplay that utilizes human character models for the gameplay. Toss in some “cute” puzzles (candy crush) with some social interaction (bachelor, soap operas, and any number of vomit educing (to men) drama plotlines, and you have a recipe for a game mode aimed at women.)

If the company wants to straddle the centerline with it, bdo (black desert online) and other mmos are probably a pretty decent guideline. Pretty outfits, with action combat, and various questlines.

But none of that stuff I just mentioned will matter to the wider gaming community if the character model continues to be a ship.

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Ironically, if they paid him like 30 grand to play their game, he’d be able to bring in more new players in a week than the entire CCP/PA marketing executive team in a year, at a tiny fraction of the cost.

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I don’t think it would be effective, because he’d ■■■■ all over it. I’ve seen a ton of streamers play EVE… and go through the tutorial and they’re completely lost.

CCP has some excellent tools with the ability to guide players though the career agents, and they just don’t. There’s a bunch of missing steps, a bunch of irrelevant missions, and even some incorrect information.

The new tutorial (the air fleet that gets attacked by the angel ships) was a good first step, but the career agents need to be completely redone at a core level, not just the pretty graphic update they did in uprising.

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You don’t pay a popular streamer to turn on your game, complete the tutorial, and then talk about the color of the mining laser as they spend two hours sitting still in a high-sec asteroid belt. You pay them to spam the download link in chat, get as many viewers as they can into a group, and do some crazy shit.

The tutorial stuff is done off-screen. And quite frankly, the only people who get confused by EVE’s contemporary NPE are either absolute non-gamers who aren’t exactly Twitch viewers (think some 56-year-old who finally has some free time because their kid just went off to college and they saw a banner ad while nostalgically browsing for Star Trek memorabilia), or room-temperature IQs who need to be walked through a fast food restaurant’s soda machine for five minutes before being able to pour themselves a drink. I’ve tried to walk such people through games (not just EVE), and it’s always a dead end; they simply don’t understand the most basic concepts, no matter how much you try to break them down into the simplest instructions possible.

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