Or are you going to tell me that the Amarr have no version of the history of the Minmater Rebellion, and the Caldari have no history of the Gallente siege of Caldari Prime that forced them out of the Luminaire system when they left the Federation?
Citation needed. We’ve seen no evidence whatsoever of Triglavian attempts to assimilate into other cultures or societies, so far as I’m aware. At most, we’ve seen the prattling of their kyber lapdogs, happily gnawing on the scraps their masters drop from the table.
The only sympathy they are going to get will come at them from the ends of our railguns.
Considering that sixteen of those were free wins due to poor doctrine choices on the part of one of the big four’s navies, not saying which, I’d say it’s not that impressive. Unless you go by the logic of “every hole is a goal”, in which case, as you were.
The negligence displayed by the Caldari State would be one thing if it hurt only the State, but it ceded far more resources than necessary to the Triglavian Collective which endangers literally everyone.
I will call out that every chance I get. People must never forget. The embarrassment must be felt by the State so that they are compelled to do better against the Triglavians and make up for all that they gave them without a real fight. Pochven is the shame of the State.
When most people say “■■■■ the Triglavians,” we mean in an entirely different context than ‘Divinity Social’ seems to interpret the phrase. There’s good reason to be off-put by this add.
The Triglavians murdered billions, disconnecting over two-dozen systems from the gate network, plunging the people who live in them into an abyssal hellscape. While I expect the whole ‘Divinity Social’ thing is some numbskull’s idea of a joke, it’s insensitive at best and malicious at worst given what those monsters did and are doing to people.
First, let me quote myself from a couple years ago. When the Triglavians first attacked.
The whole nonsense diving into the Abyss was wrong, but their response was not an equivalent. We at worst engaged some military ships on their borders… they conquered and murdered or forcefully adapted civilian populations.
Maybe if we’d, you know, invaded… but we didn’t. However CONCORD came into the possession of filament technology—and there are considerable reasons to believe it was not reverse-engineered—what happened next was not an invasion.
What capsuleers who went into the Abyss found themselves in was, and still is, not an inhabited area. Those pockets of Abyssal deadspace are very much a testing ground… a firing range, in some regards. The majority of ships capsuleers engage in those pockets aren’t actually Trigs. Drifters, Rogue Drones, etc, all didn’t come from there. They were, in same manner, brought in. None of them, no matter how much we’re sure they’re in some existential conflict with the Triglavians, appear to be running rampant or attacking Trig infrastructure. Instead, they’re just… waiting. For us. They aren’t engaging one another, after all.
And like the Drifters, we’ve seen none of the Trigs’ actual infrastructure and home territories. None. We’ve seen mazes laid out for lab rats—with us as the rats. Beat the challenge of this room of the maze, and you get a shiny box of loot!
Who’s that box aimed at? It’s not the Trigs. They don’t need to leave blueprints and materials for their own stuff laying around. The Drifters, with their powerful ships that use completely different technology, don’t show any sign of actually opening those boxes to get at those schematics and materials. The Rogue Drones don’t, either. So it’s aimed at us, at capsuleers.
Rewards specifically laid out for us to take, after beating the challenges the Trigs set up for us.
Wow. That totally sounds like an ‘invasion’, doesn’t it?
Congratulations, what you’re calling an ‘invasion’ was actually the Trigs inviting us in so they could gather intelligence about us, with little bits of candy to tempt idiots into fighting on the Trigs’ side so they can get more candy later.
My bad. By “inhabitants” I mean those who are found in the pockets. From our perspective it doesn’t matter if they actually live there or not, they’re still found to be there and destroyed accordingly.
Yes, it’s not just Triglavians, but also Triglavians. Even if it’s not solely their realm, it’s definitely notour realm. Drifters don’t like it when capsuleers enter their wormholes, so why would Triglavians not care about us entering their realm?
Capsuleers started this, because we’ve gotten enabled to do it and now everyone’s paying the price. All because some asshole decided it would be a good idea to hand out filaments enabling travel to the Triglavian realm.
Yes, of course. That first Triglavian ship which was found was actually an elaborate trick to get us into attacking them.
Of course now we are the labrats! Why would they not try to analyse us as best as they can? Figure out our behaviour, figure out how to best deal with us, figure out our weaknesses. Just wait, at some point they’re going to be done with it!
When that point in time comes, you’re going to be seeing them everywhere! They’re going to be far more aggressive and capable than what we’re used to. Agents will be handing out missions asking capsuleers to deal with them on behalf of the empires and it’s likely going to come sooner than we’d think.
That’s what people get for taking a bite they can’t ■■■■■■■ chew. None of the current ■■■■ would have happened if we hadn’t gotten the ability to go there. None of it!
Accept the responsibility or not, I don’t care, but fooling yourself into blaming them for starting this ■■■■ is ridiculous! You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
Except that from your perspective, you’re labeling that an ‘invasion’. Someone walking into one of those ‘the targets pop up as you move through the course’ shooting ranges isn’t invading it. And that’s exactly what the Trigs set those guys up to be.
I didn’t say they don’t care. Of course they care. But caring doesn’t necessarily mean ‘getting mad about it’. They wanted their data. They wanted the data about us, about our ships, about our capabilities, that we so cheerfully, so eagerly fed them. Why waste time and resources spying on people when they’ll walk right into your little testing ground and show you exactly how to best kill them?
That first one that was found. CONCORD got it more or less intact, right? From a culture that includes informoph entities, real-time communication between the Abyss and K-space, and has demonstrated the ability to decide ‘oh, look, Sansha might get their hands on us… self-immolate’ and leave nothing for the Sansha to recover.
We’ve seen how much is left of Trig ships when they get blown up. We’ve seen what’s recoverable. But this one time, there’s enough of the ship left intact that CONCORD can find twenty different variety of filaments. Not only can they find this never-before-theorized technology, they can figure out how those filaments interact with the ship’s warp drive to make it work completely differently. They figure out how to decouple the warp drive from the gravity capacitors that let it lock onto a destination, and propel the ship along a vector that is not one of the three spatial dimensions the engines are designed to work with. And all this radically divergent technology is somehow magically still totally compatible with the warp systems invented in Luminaire, to pull it into the Abyss.
Wow. CONCORD got amazingly lucky, huh?
A. Their entire culture looks to be centered around the proving grounds. What makes you think they’d ever decide they’ve learned ‘enough’ to be done?
B. Yes, when they decided they’d learned enough—without being ‘done’—they went surveying, and invaded. They got far more aggressive and displayed a level of capability beyond people saw when abyss-diving. Congratulations, you’re mockingly predicting crap that already happened.
Yeah, this is patent nonsense. We know from the recovered trinary datastreams that the Trigs’ decision to return to their ‘ancient domains’ in New Eden wasn’t because of us, it was because of the Drifters, and the war between the two that predates us discovering anything about the Trigs.
So no, there is no reason to believe they would not have chosen to retake those systems had we not gone abyss-diving. There is, in fact, every reason to believe that the Trigs, locked in their war against the ‘ancient adversary’ saw an opportunity to recruit minions, lay claim to resources, and get served up the necessary intelligence to achieve both of those aims, without needing to divert significant resources from the war effort.
Oh, there’s some stupid going on here, but it ain’t me.
I’m saying… you know what? I’m gonna have to break this into groups of points, so I can lay each aspect of this out clearly. So. Group I:
Filament technology is based on a different technological development tree than our drive systems, which are based on warp technology developed in the Luminaire system, more recently than the Amarr return to space.
That tech base diverged from everything in New Eden during the Second Jove Empire, and has been developing in isolation since then.
The culture that developed this tech is centered around ‘cladistic proving’, and a constant cycle of testing and evaluation would mean accelerated development cycles.
The more development cycles, the more divergence.
We know the Third Empire lasted 500 years. It followed a period of instability after the end of the 2500-year run of the Second Empire. When the Trigs went to the Abyss, the Second Empire wasn’t in decline, and they weren’t scrambling to work out the tech. It quite obviously was mature enough to work. This means we can reasonably say the abyssal conduit technology is probably at least a thousand years old.
That’s 1,000 years of development in complete isolation from New Eden’s technology.
Now, let’s put a pin in that. We’ll come back to it, but for now, Group II:
We know, from recovered datastreams, that the Trigs possess the ability and willingness to ‘self-immolate’ to prevent themselves and their technology from ending up in the hands of people they don’t want getting it. Specifically, we know they did this with regard to the Sansha.
We know that when forcibly exploded in ways that preclude that kind of self-immolation, Trig ships leave no more useable salvage than normal baseliner vessels.
CONCORD still managed to get their hands on an intact, non-wreck, Triglavian vessel.
In all of the encounters with Triglavians since then… nobody else has managed to do this. CONCORD got 1 ship, and nobody else has ever duplicated this feat.
Ok, so Group I addresses the technological divergence. Group II addresses CONCORD’s miraculous acquisition of the only Trig ship ever recovered intact. Group III time!
Filament technology wasn’t even theoretical prior to the recovery of that ship.
CONCORD managed to reverse-engineer completely unknown technology, and do it correctly.
They claim to have done this without even a demonstration to know what effect they were attempting to recreate.
They reverse-engineered this technology so well that it worked flawlessly every time, right after being given to capsuleers.
They achieved this miracle of scientific precision with twenty different kinds of filaments. Four main types, five subtypes of each.
This was achieved in less time than it took the empires to use basically already-proven and well-understood technology (triage, remote repair modules) to build the Force Auxiliaries after Empress Jamyl I was killed by Drifters.
In less than two years, CONCORD has been able to further develop this technology to the point where it can be used to move small fleets of up to 25 ships with a single filament, and move them into places not the Abyss, but are still always null-sec.
In fact, CONCORD’s been able to refine it further to release a kind of filament that only goes to ‘active’ systems in nullsec.
That means CONCORD’s built filaments that allow a single frigate’s warp drive to move 24 battleships. It moves them to a specific subgroup of a specific type of star system. That type isn’t based on stellar class, types of planets, distance from the cluster’s center, or any other physical characteristics of the star system. Instead, it’s based on CONCORD’s security rating for the system, and how much CONCORD’s been paying out in bounties there lately. In short: it’s based on a whole bunch of ‘looking up current data from CONCORD’.
Put together: CONCORD went from ‘we’ve never even considered making a warp drive do that’ to ‘yeah, no problem, we can make your frigate move a fleet to this VERY specific list of systems we maintain and keep up-to-date’ in under four years. It took CONCORD longer to develop the Enforcer hull into the Monitor, and that’s just a bunch of built-in hardeners replacing the advanced cloak-support electronics.
So.
CONCORD managed to pull off an engineering miracle using technology they shouldn’t have understood, that should have been completely incompatible with ours. And they pulled that miracle off after miraculously acquiring the only Triglavian ship ever taken intact.
EVER.
But that’s easier to believe than ‘the trigs have been aware of New Eden the whole time, cuz we know they’re originally from here, and chose to lay out some bait ahead of their Reconquista’?
And just for a bonus, a couple of weird notes about filaments…
Filament tech, on the face of it, should not work with our warp drives. Our warp drives use gravity capacitors to lock onto mass shadows and plot a course through which space-time is compressed and stretched, moving the ship faster than light by not moving the ship at all (which is why you stop when you come out of warp, you don’t just keep going at your previous sublight speed).
Filaments, instead, work fairly similar to jump drives: they create a connection between two very distant points of space-time, and if there’s a direction of travel involved, it’s not through one of the three spatial dimensions our brains comprehend. (Yes, I know a lot of people understand the math behind higher numbers of dimensions, but that’s what they understand: the math. They still can’t actually comprehend extra directions at right angles to reality.)
The only jump-capable ships that can use filaments at all… are Black Ops battleships, which can use the yeet-filaments.
