Hurrah. Someone who understands how difficult it is to reverse engineer things.
Unlike all those fiction writers who just assume a science team can reverse engineer an alien artefact to the point of being able to copy it, in a couple days or so.
Or downloading the entire cultural output of a civilisation and being able to find a reference that helps with a current problem, within a couple hours.
That stuff really annoys me, so it does.
Thanks! What a great post! 
I have nothing to add to this and agree with it wholeheartedly.
I still maintain my position that it’s our fault, though. We shouldn’t have gone there in the first place. Of course, even if you had figured all of this out early enough … no one would have believed you anyway.
So …
What do you think why this is happening?
What’s the motive?
gestures at 27 star systems
While having superb ships for that purpose, like Naga that could singlehandedly dispatch hundreds of trigs from long range not even getting a scratch on armor, such long range turret doctrine ships were not used.
That is very strange, and even past incopetence level, I think it is actually… treason level. 
No I mean from CONCORD’s side, etc.
How plausible would you say it was, that the Triglavians have been aware of New Eden for a while, and their scientists were able to acquire New Eden technological artifacts somehow (via the Rogue Drones or Sansha’s Nation perhaps?), work out the methods to make filaments compatible with New Eden warp drives, and that the ship that CONCORD ‘captured’ was the Triglavian equivalent of a diplomatic mission, that was loaded with the instruction manuals on how the filaments etc, function, how to build them and so on. I.e. the Triglavians intended to be taken intact, as part of a plan to initiate proper cladistic proving ?
I mean, for all I know, throwing someone a weapon and yelling “FIGHT ME” is how you say “hello” in Triglavian culture.
And they wanted a lot more than that. They wanted all of the systems they targeted. We aren’t the real enemy, remember? We get referred to as ‘narodnya’, as people. And they’ve been trying to recruit us. The Drifters, on the other hand…
That other offshoot of the Second Jove Empire gets labelled ‘the Ancient Enemy’. So at a guess? Resources and cannon fodder to throw at their real war. The one they’ve been focused on for probably a thousand years.
Oh, and by the way…
This has been known for nearly three years, and not really disputed.
That, for the record, was posted less than 1 full month after the initial forays into the Abyss. Oh, and don’t think too hard about the last line of it, in light of the stuff in my ‘great post’.
After all, CONCORD did form EDENCOM to fight the Trigs. Who, as we’ve seen, continue to provide stellar1 system defenses in the places they’ve ‘fortified’.
But, you know, once staffed up with as many Amarr-affiliated officers as possible, EDENCOM did a great job, all on their own… of defending the Empire. Which had previously been singled out and attacked by the ‘Ancient Enemy’ Drifters, for no apparent reason.
I mean, the whole thing seems a bit tin-foil-y to me, but that just takes us back to ‘hey, CONCORD, EDENCOM, where’s the frikkin’ transparency?’
1. Too soon?
They come from here. They have clearly been ‘aware of New Eden’ for the entire time they’ve been in the Abyss. That’s why they remember it well enough to call it their ‘ancient domains’.
They invented the tech to get to the Abyss in the first place. I really doubt they needed Rogue Drones (which, remember, are New Eden technology), or the Sansha (whom they abhor—I highly doubt they’d trust anything that came from a Sansha ship / computer / transmission) to get New Eden tech.
That would seem to be the implication, yes.
Well, there’s being aware in the sense of knowing that a certain star at a certain location was the ancient residence of a bunch of the Trigs ancestors. And then there’s being aware that said star system is currently inhabited by a space-faring civilisation, with particular technological advancements that have been developed since the time when that star system was no longer inhabited by the Trigs ancestors.
Well, the Triglavians would have needed examples of the warp drives used by New Eden ships, in order to design the filaments so that they could work with them, no ? i.e. the Triglavians designed the filaments, and then loaded their ship with explanations of how the filaments worked, so that when CONCORD captured it, the filaments could be readily understood and replicated?
And the Sansha and Rogue Drones, they’ve been poking around in w-space for a while, and I figured they’d be the likely candidates for Triglavians to capture and examine. Without the rest of New Eden finding out, because Rogue Drones can’t communicate, and Sansha’s Nation won’t communicate, with the rest of New Eden.
Obviously, but there’s no reason to insert the ‘need Rogue Drones’ to get it. Having the tech to get to the Abyss, they clearly had the tech to get back the whole time. Which also solves the ‘but how do they know???’ nonsense, since they could have easily just sent out cloaked ships, and probably hacked into the Observatories put up by the Jove (you know, since they’re contemporaries, at least.)
I’m going to go ahead and say that even if they wanted us to dive into the Abyss and take their little trials…
Even if they handed us the technology to do so…
None of us should have taken them up on it. Triglavians are clearly psychopaths and interacting with them at all is dangerous. Playing their games whether it be Abyssal diving or their Proving Grounds can only really get them more interested in messing with us.
I for one would rather they give what they took back, return to the Abyss, and shut the damn door behind them.
Yup. Totally agree. Know some people did it out of greed, some did it out of boredom, some out of scientific curiosity. In the end, though, we should’ve just stayed the hell out and made them work for their intel.
Wow, we all agree!
Life is precious!
Let’s ■■■■!
No. And stay away from my girlfriend.
Aw. 
Oh, this is fun. I get to be the agreed-upon villain! … oh wait that’s not new. Oh well.
So, quasi-professional filament diver here (it’s where I make nearly all my ISK), recently resumed after shutting down during the invasions.
I mostly agree, or at least don’t strongly disagree, with Arrendis’s account, but have at least one thing to add: the Triglavian Collective actively encouraged filament use, and went so far as to hack CONCORD’s systems punishing tier 4 and 5 filament users by setting them suspect (and therefore fair game for other eggers) upon their return. They also are basically the only people likely to have sponsored the Agency event that arrived at the same time.
Arrendis is correct: they wanted us there. And, they seem to still want us there.
To me, though, that’s not quite reason enough not to go. Sure if I go I’m being studied, but actually I don’t think there’s a lot new they’re likely to be learning (I’ve kinda been there before, you know?). I’m retrieving exotic materials including survey data that CONCORD’s really eager to get, and I have the opportunity to engage the Triglavians and also to interfere with other Abyssal incursions (which … gets messy when it’s CONCORD? Those black ops units don’t seem to have any qualms about attacking me and it doesn’t hurt me with CONCORD though, so … eh?).
For me what flips it, though, is this: there isn’t a lot we’ve managed to do that the Triglavians aren’t apparently fine with. I mean, they try to kill us in various contexts but they don’t seem to hold it against us much. The EDENCOM defense campaign was something they seemed to take slightly more personally, but even then it seems more like they were sorting allies from enemies among capsuleerdom than that they really objected much to those of us who picked “enemy.” They still happily run me through their provings, after.
The question, then, is whether we can come out ahead in the exchange. I’ve run basically the same fit for years now, and … it works? Yay? Probably less efficient than a Sacrilege but I like the extra reach and besides I still have a little sentimental attachment to Caldari ship design? What they have to learn from me they’ve probably mostly learned, but they still consider me an acceptable contestant and they still reward me accordingly.
What I take from them is useful in real and measurable ways (including and even especially against the Triglavians themselves), and some of the resources brought back are the source of most of what we know about the Collective. It’s how we found the world ark and dreadnought construction sites and learned of the Triglavians’ encounters with other entities, along with a lot of what we’ve pieced together about their culture and attitudes (and gods know how much survey data). I believe if we disengage we’ll deny ourselves a key source of intel, intel we badly need to keep flowing if we’re ever going to unweave Pochven.
Admittedly, it’s hard for me to disentangle personal desires from what’s correct, here. The tests the Triglavians set before me are more meaningful than the massacres an experienced combat pilot usually gets tasked with, which bloody, blunt, and rust me at the same time. I’ll admit I relish the challenge. I didn’t get into this work to be an executioner.
But, also …
All during our contacts with them, a consistent theme of Triglavian culture and conduct throughout has been a certain peculiar sense of fair play. It doesn’t work the way we’d normally expect or want it to, but it’s there even so. I doubt they consider it a weakness, but I don’t at all mind using it as one. Few of the other contestants are of a kind we want to see rewarded (probably just one, unless you’re not a fan of CONCORD).
So I’ll play their games, if it means a chance to learn, to grow, perhaps to catch up. To all appearances, they won’t disapprove even if we use that growth to challenge them. But considering how skewed their approval is from our perspective, their approval’s not quite a reason not to do it.
That the first appearance of a Divinity Social advertisement in an Amarr station did not immediately result in the Empress declaring a Holy Crusade against someone is further proof that sedevacantism is true.
That’s a freaking LOT of drama over insignificant part of the offending advertisement.
There’s a lot of unnecessary discussions whether triggies are good or bad (well, I consider them quite bad - but again, it’s irrelevant)!
For the main issue in this perverted and amoral advertisement is NOT triglavian.
But about general promotion of DATING service among people of DIFFERENT bloodlines! That’s a racism! That’s a disrespect to any bloodline (even to same bad(IMHO) Triglavians)! That’s just amoral and indecent! Do you realize that even CHILDREN can see these advertisements, can you allow a children to see that people of different bloodlines are dating each other?! Who will grow from these children? Perverts?? That will damage psyche of a child! That will corrupt young souls!
These advertisements must STOP and those who made them shall take a very harsh punishment for allowing such perversion into public media!
No they won’t.
People complaining that the Triglavians are making war, people complaining when they want to make love, could it be possible that people enjoy complaining? 