Because WoW is the granddaddy and has such market momentum that it’s hard for them to screw up significantly enough to wreck the game? Therefore anyone trying to compete with them has to fight that market momentum instead. Which means even a good game can get driven over by WoW.
Edit for a funny note most probably don’t realise: EVE is older than WoW
Clearly spends a lot of time bug fixing them as well with excellent post launch support.
Yes, they make money. So?
You think EVE can compete against games that have been designed to be themeparks from the start? My point is that with its current mechanics, EVE cannot be a good themepark. So trying to lazily become one, will just fail.
So it would be more logical to improve its current position within the sandbox market, instead of losing market share to games like Albion online.
And FarmVille and Candy Crush are to WoW and ESO what WoW and ESO are to EVE. What’s your point?
Should every single game maker follow the template that the top player in the industry uses?
By the way, WoW started hemorrhaging players around Cataclysm, as they’ve thoroughly casualized the game at that point. It’s only now starting to “come back,” after they upped the difficulty again.
Give it a try,…
See what happens,.hard to explain to a new player that they have to do 45 jumps to get through the Null alliance show in Niarja,.,.and believe me ,.they have their hands in that pudding,.kind-of interesting they were talking about that before it even started,.
As more missions,.lets not talk about that,.SoE was a good challenge enough for a new player,.
Mining,.what happened to the anomalies ?
Its a challenge to say the least,.maybe more then necessary,.the new player experience has taken a hit,…
No. Absolutely not. They are successful because they have built a game environment that players tend to enjoy. Because of that, people put money into them. However, like CCP, the game industry overall has been putting a lot of work into destroying themselves in the quest for fast cash at the expense of everything else. In short, accountants are running games into the ground. CCP tends to bring it’s own kind of “awesome” into that formula for what Sam Elliot called “a special kind of stupid”. The kind that you can’t even define as you watch it in action. WoW seems like it’s just one step away from taking hammers to their servers they put so much work into their kind of failure. WoW management is the real WoW killer.
I agree with this actually. I think we are failing as designers and some of the people here do providing a legit argument for not turning the game into a theme park game. That being said however, i do not think making high sec not have suicide ganking and being competitive in the income rates to null etc does that.
The truth is these individuals are scared that if people come in the game and can sit in high sec and not be abused by them, they game will turn into some pve-game.
as a designer i recognize there are choices you can make at the start / launch of a game (like having unconditional/conditional pvp) but changing that after launch is dangerous and often causes mass complaint.
Mr. Designer, it’s been weeks since you’ve started humming this tune, and you still haven’t told us how you’d make up for the lack of about 20-25% of the game’s overall destruction in order to keep the economy functional.
No one is scared. People just understand EVE better than you.
In its current state, the game have a problem of not having enough assets leave the economy, i.e. no enough destruction, for it to be healthy. Many players have said this over the years that it has become a problem, and recently CCP have acknowledged this.
So in order for highsec to become safer, more mechanics needs to be implemented in other places in order to counter the loss of asset destruction.
Why do they need to though? Why do they absolutely have to shop in Jita? Maybe it would be better if they didn’t get that idea in their head.
Are still out there?
Ok, this is a loss, but it’s hardly a crippling loss. And it’s probably still doable since frigates and destroyers will be off gate before the wereposts kill them with the current scan res. And if they die it’s not a huge loss and they can ask for help.
So… I’m still not seeing where newbies are crippled.
It’s not really any good me starting a new character to see since I’d just get around any issues with experience and probably not even realise I’d done so, hence why I’m asking, because I honestly can’t see how they are crippled. They can’t do some things like they used to, but that isn’t crippled.
There are ways to deal with this.
Potentially, or reduce refine rates. Another option is to reduce income from the actual source (null).
Yes because if null is making insanes amounts of isk, it should get nerfed, not high sec.
He’s not actually advocating for “casual” players; he just uses them as a red herring for his true goal, which is the elimination of suicide-ganking so that he’d be able to AFK-autopilot freighters full of 0.0 loot to Jita without a hassle.
But what are those ways? You still haven’t described a single one, lmao!
Yes, I agree that null needs to be more dangerous. That was part of my point though.
Highsec could be made safer, if asset destruction is increased elsewhere. But one cannot just make highsec safer without any counter measures, cause that would worsen an already bad economy.
Just to be clear. I am opposed to making highsec completely safe, because of humans natural risk-averse nature. Think too many players would congregate in highsec, which I feel also might have a negative effect.
In my opinion, the optimal solution would have something to do with highsec being a place to condition people to the idea of loss, since the game revolves around this. The idea of loss is foreign from other games, so people needs to get used to it in EVE. Think highsec should be the place where you do that.
There are many ways. If mass income is being made in null that problem needs to be addressed first.
There are some quick alterations to be made in high sec that can help, like reducing the insurance payouts by 10-20%.
I dont want the suicide ganking to be active in high sec, but i am willing to move FW into high sec and look at doing something like moving standings to enabling people on counter factions (amarr vs minmatar) to attack their revials in high sec with out concord.
I’d like to move away from concord based mechanics to more “set in stone” concepts. This will mean that mission runners, and incursion players will gain more danger, where miners will have less.
Lastly, as always i have advocated for more danger based on the level of the activity, so more 10 ded sits in high sec, and level 5 missions in high sec in an effort to increase the danger factor there to a degree.
The issue is that low sec will never be a good middle ground between high and null until something like concord is put in low sec.
Or pirates are highly motivated to stealing instead of killing.
The thing is, null doesn’t hate the idea of a completely safe, high security area. they have been very successful at making there own high security areas in null. They just hate the idea of OTHER people having any safety. The alliances feel that they alone should possess very safe, lucrative and boring areas. Let’s face it. If you’re truly risk-averse then you just joint the biggest alliance you can find. Done.
To compensate for that it would see that the CSM (in part or whole) has convinced CCP (over time) that HS and LS should make up for the lack of losses in null. The only way null can even try to keep up with expected losses is to make scheduled “wars” to burn up resources so the markets don’t crash. If CCP and the CSM can’t make things balance that way, then they will have to artificially stabilize the market. That would be the end of a player driven economy. It would just become the in-game auction house like Diablo and LoTRO.
Im a null pvper, and i am in the strongest null coalition (because of personal loyalties and hatred for rival goons) in the game. I am not against pvp, or risk. I am however against risk based on the security of space, and strongly believe the risk should be in the activity (a level 1 plex site, vs a level 10).
Null alliances themselves need nerfs, and i advocate just as much for them as i do removal of suicide from high sec. But the removal of suicide is for more then just letting pvers who dont want to pvp to be there (which btw has nothing to do with risk/reward, it has everything to do with keeping people in the game), it also has to do with pushing the criminal element into low to help populate it which has not been done by eve ever.
I’m not saying that, he’s saying that! read his posts!
The grand majority of suicide-ganking value comes from fat-ass traders and mission runners (and bots in T2 mining barges). Instead of making assumptions, and crying about someone needing to save the children, look at what actually goes on. The kill board is right there!
Also, like 95% of all gankers are alts of null crabs and WH/low-sec pirates. Only a couple of people do it full-time, and only because of how much they enjoy it. These tired old arguments have no bearing on reality. It’s like saying that they’re mom’s-basement-dwelling virgins; just stuff you say to denigrate the opposition in order to feel better about your own choices. It’s just silly at this point.
ISK is currency, and just one of the primary resources available in the economy. Adjusting ISK generation/consumption alone won’t do anything; the market needs to adjust as a whole. That means that you need to find a way to destroy all of those minerals, moon goo, PI products, faction modules, etc. etc. if suicide-ganking goes kaput.
You keep thinking that if you eliminate a huge chunk of nonconsensual PvP in the game, then consensual PvP will pick up that slack. “Oh,” people who are already fighting in FW/Arenas/roaming gangs/whatever will say, “now that freighters aren’t getting ganked anymore, I guess I should buckle up and lose 25% more stuff every day to keep the economy chugging along!”
No, man, it doesn’t work like that. If you get rid of this destruction, you will effectively devalue all other income generation in all of its forms, which will lead to economic entrenchment as players drop large amounts of non-PvE activities in the game just to keep up with the resulting catastrophic inflation. So what are you going to do then? Are you going to tax players harder? That will just make the problem worse!
Your solution of redistributing loss from players who refuse to proactively protect themselves to those who do isn’t compatible with EVE’s broken-window economics. The only way EVE’s economy can sustain itself is if you encourage and reward demand, instead of punishing and restricting supply.
What is the criminal element going to do in low-sec, if there’s no one else to make money from? You can’t have a criminal element without a non-criminal element available to feed it.
The problem with you suicide gankers on these forums is that you never accept that pve sources are ways ships are lost, and try to hide about how your douchbaggery is the savior of eve, and its not.
PvE sources account for less than 1% of total destruction. And that’s today, with the Trig invasion going on. A few months ago, it was closer to about .05%.
@Mike_Azariah @Corporal_Punishment08
Just wanted to provide a different perspective.
Caldari did get hit hard but it’s still early days.
You have nourvakaiken (spelling may be off) which plenty of people are using as a base.
The far bigger issue is how every half-decent group has left caldari militia. (not because of trigs).
Some of you did. You may not realise but some larger caldari groups, including UCSC, chose to fight on trig side and be positive to trigs.
This is probably not true. Leaving FW wouldn’t have then allowed them to use the lost systems again. It would not correct their trig standing. There would be no benefit to leaving FW after the trig victories. Or if there is, what would it be?
I’m more inclined to believe players left caldari FW for the same reason gallente groups have been leaving. Because it just wasn’t fun anymore. Both sides have been losing organised groups, and the warzone drying up, since before the trig invasion.