Do Any CCP Developers Even Pay Attention To This?

I see people trying to tell ya what is wrong and nobody seems to listen at CCP. Here, lets read a couple of the posts together shall we? “When will these Trivialturds be leaving New Eden?” “Trig invasions are crushing hisec PVE” “Is EvE being purposely sabotaged?”

So look, I’ve been back and forth from EvE for a long time now. I use to enjoy trading, it was my thing to do. Buy low, sell for a reasonable profit. Now I come back, and the market fees are absolutely bonkers! Heck, lvl 5 everything in trading and I cant even sell things without losing money because others post lower than mine the second I do. Anytime you need to make a modification, A GAZILLION ISK IN BROKERS FEES. Cant even make a profit without sitting on your order for weeks or even months to try to make anything at all, and thats just if you get lucky and nobody undercuts your sells, or overbids your buys. There is no profit anymore and its sad because there was a whole economy that enjoyed doing that.

Then lets add the idiotic NPCs in the game, the mining fleet NPCs, the pirate fleet NPCs and the triglavian horde NPCs to be specific. The mining fleet NPCs take away from what people who might want to mine. For a few years back now, I’d go to a belt and it would be all mined out, oh but not by human players, oh no, by the NPCs put into the game to take away from the player base yet again. Then you have the triglavian NPCs, I’ve lost hundreds of millions to them and to the NPC pirates that just so happen to jump into your home base area that will just warp in on top of you, scram you and kill you almost instantly. I mean what the actual hell are you all thinking over at CCP? You’re suppose to want to KEEP YOUR PLAYERBASE, not SABOTAGE AND HURT THEM.

I agree with others, this game use to be fun, it use to be free and open for everyone to come in and enjoy, but not anymore, anymore it is a waste of time because there is NO FUN IN WASTING YOUR TIME! Cant even make a profit trading anymore, really? ITS A VIDEO GAME! Lose your ships and all your profit to Triglavians or pirates even if you do come out with a little scratch. Its a NO NO WIN for anybody.

You all really need someone who knows what the hell they’re doing at CCP, because obviously you dont at the moment.

Its very simple to fix

1 ) Stop the ignorant NPCs killing you out of nowhere, or even when you do go into a triglavian invasion area, they shouldnt be gate camping you, and there should still be concord involved if its highsec, its just ignorant. There needs to be a clear line of PVE and PVP. People who enjoy doing PVE things, like mining, mission running etc shouldn’t need to look over their shoulder every second in high sec. PVE people like to play PVE because it is relaxing and they dont need to look over their shoulder every second, thats why they like playing PVE. PVP is where those sort of things take place. It seems like you all dont want a PVE environment at all anymore, and thats the problem I see with it. You want to push more stuff for PVP than for anything else. Maybe its for the publicity, but let me tell you, there is no better publicity than word of mouth. Help people to help you. Seperate the PVE and PVP again like it use to be and it should be!

  1. Cut the ridiculous brokers fees for trading and modifying orders. It costs more than what 1 item is worth just to modify an order. Heck, I wanted to update an ammo order, and it was going to cost like a half a million isk just to modify it. You know how many of those I’d have to sell in order to just make a half million isk? Let alone to start making a profit off of them?

  2. And lastly, let Alpha accounts fly mining barges. There is no reason not to do this. It will get more people playing eve, it will boost the economy, and it will get more premium accounts for EvE, its absolutely absurd that you all havent done this yet. (are those monkeys scratching their heads yet?)

You want to bring back your game and your economy? This is how.

Lets hear all the justifications why again.

Ohhh the bots… ohhh its for your safety.

Save all the excuses because we’re tired of not getting heard and being trampled on. #SAVE EVE ONLINE


Perhaps CCP has added in all the NPCs to provide the needed risk that players used to provide through wars and ganks.

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Oh no! Not this thread again! :tired_face:


I’m not sure why you haven’t got the message. The game is changing directions, and it heading back to its roots as a competitive, PvP sandbox game. Now your confusion is understandable given for how long CCP dumbed down the game looking to appeal to a more… competition-averse player-base, one used to always “winning” in whatever game they played, but that is over. They rode that train for a while, but the cracks were showing and CCP had to step in and administer several doses of strong, bitter medicine to fix the economic damage years of carebear pandering created.

The have clearly said what they are trying to do: make Eve more accessible for new players, and more challenging for established players. To increase the slope of difficulty so there is something for all players of all interests and abilities. That means the challenge at the high end is only going to go up, and while you can still play Eve in a “relaxing” way where you can mess around with little risk of loss or conflict, that isn’t going to be where the wealth and power are found anymore. You are now going to have to compete for that with other players if you want to be king of the hill.

That is bad news for farmers and grinders. That still will always be a thing and a strategy to accumulate power, but near 100% safe, max income grinding isn’t going to be a thing anymore. We the players have solved most of this, and it’s time for CCP to shake things up and make some space for players to compete again and make sure the good and innovative get rewarded, and the bad/lazy who read some guide on the Internet don’t as much.

So, with that in mind, your ideas go 180-degrees against where CCP is trying to take the game. Specifically:

  1. The Trigs are invading and reshaping highsec. Yes, that may disrupt your single-player mission running experience right now, but that is the whole point. The Invasion itself will wrap up soon, and things will get more back to normal, but they are just another form of PvE, not even that unlike Incursions which also disrupt “normal” PvE activities which have been around forever. They just have a bigger footprint, and perhaps a permanent one. So, while I don’t know what CCP’s ultimate intentions are, highsec is going to have more dangerous parts going forward. CCP could spend a little more work informing players about where that danger is so they can pick the level of risk they are most comfortable with, but it is absolutely intended that some places are going to have more risk (and likely eventually more reward) in highsec.

  2. Also intended. Look, spending your life undercutting by 0.01 ISK was not a particular brilliant trading strategy despite what many players convinced themselves of. In fact, it was so brain-dead it led to the markets being dominated by bots and bot-aspirants who brute forced their way to most of the trading profits. We all had to adjust, but this new system is much better for “casual” players who play to “relax” as it frees them from hours of repetitive clicking to compete with the no-lifers and bots. Maybe the adjustment fee is a little too high, but in general the market changes made in March give some more space for smarter traders to beat the undercutters.

  3. Worst idea on the list. CCP is doing their best to fix the economy by making virtual items have meaning and value. The last thing the economy needs is more ore flooding the markets. And exactly how will it get more Omega accounts if you give more gameplay - like mining barges - away to Alpha accounts for free?

So, yes the CCP developers are paying attention. These changes you are complaining about are considered and are intended to make a better game. Adding a little more challenge to parts of the game is a good thing, not a problem, and if you don’t want to be challenged, just wait a little more until the map is settled and you can get back to your safe farming in a safer system. But asking for all the game to be like that, or for CCP not to add new, more challenging content, is extremely selfish: not everyone is like you.


CCP: Adds new PvE content

Angry guy on forums:

Yup, that about sums up this thread.


@Maroosh, if you can get your standing with the corp and faction high, you can lower your broker/relist fees substantially. I’m sure you really don’t want to grind missions to do that, but while you’ll have to for the faction, USIA can grind your corp standings for you. Luckily we can show you simple and quick ways to generate up to 6 storyline missions per day to rapidly raise your faction standings.

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No, the developers don’t “listen” here, and rightly so. Your average gamer knows less about game design than even CCP does, and that’s saying something.

CCP could benefit from having a couple editors sort of review and summarize overall reactions and ideas and input from the forums. Unfortunately that only helps if you’re capable of distinguishing good ideas from bad and then executing on the good ones, something CCP has demonstrated low capacity for.

A lot of players like Black Pedro are just whistling in the dark thinking “this is all intended and good for the game and it’s CCP finally doing what’s needed”. Mostly because it’s been so long since CCP did anything really consequential with the game and because they start out from the fallacious mindset that “more destruction is good, and if it’s happening in high sec that’s twice as good”.

I won’t bother to point out what’s wrong with that sort of thinking yet again. The subscription numbers a year from now will do that for me. In the meantime, adapt to the way the game is running right now, or organize a major cash-flow response to CCP’s latest direction, or stop playing. Those are really your only options.

Complaining that you don’t like broker fees, NPC competition, and want Alpha mining barges is basically just saying “Please troll me”. The hundred similar threads and their responses would have amply demonstrated that if you’d looked.


Okay, first of all, CCP does listen to players. For example, I’ve heard players advocate for getting rid of asset safety and something like the quantum cores long before Forsaken Fortress and Quantum Cores were implemented. However, just because they’re listening, that doesn’t mean they’re going to cater to the most vociferous complainers.

Believe it or not, but Eve is home to a relatively diverse set of players, all with their own preferences, values, and priorities. And some of those players actually like the trig content and market changes that you hate so much. Personally, I liked the old market system because the .01 isk war gave no-lifers such as myself an advantage. However, I understand why they made the change, and think that the game is probably better off for it.

Speaking of which, do you know why they made the change? I don’t know, maybe you wouldn’t be quite so angry if you weren’t suffering from the misconception that CCP was actively trying to sabotage your play style.

Also, as others have said, you might want to put on your big boy pants and belly up to the bar. I suppose we could argue about what kind of game Eve is supposed to be, but I was under the impression that it was a brutal, unforgiving game with a harsh death mechanic.


Like these guys?


This is wrong. It’s moving away from its roots as a sandbox game and moving towards a PvP arena game. I mean come on, you can now click on a filament to be chucked into actual arenas. Instanced PvP is hardly the core design principle of EVE.

When exactly is that going to start? The majority of the economic damage comes from nullsec alliances and they’ve not added any risk there at all. It’s still almost entirely risk free.

By adding the ability for veterans to passively profit off of nearly every aspect of highsec gameplay, adding NPCs that can oneshot newbies with low tanking skills and directing players on career missions into nullsec systems?

But the challenge at the high end isn’t going up. The most rewarding forms of PvE have barely been touched. It’s the low end that has been hit. Like a dude running a 10 man multiboxed mining fleet isn’t going to care when a trig shows up and gets blapped by his 50 drones. A brand new player flying solo in their first barge is.

As I’ve pointed out above, nullsec still rakes in vastly more income and has yet to see any significant increase in risk. and that’s just their PvE. Perimeter TTT will make more in taxes than most newbies will ever be able to make, and when their citadel was being undercut by others throwing up market hubs with a lower tax rate, CCP suddenly jumped in and set a minimum tax rate so TTT can’t be undercut.


This was indeed very fishy.


It is good for the game.

This game lives and dies by the health of the economy. Destruction stimulates demand, in addition to producing content. Yes, CCP has to make sure that this is somewhat fun or at least the player has some agency in the destruction, but anyone looking at the game with clear eyes could see the problems years of neglect had caused for the economy and that drastic intervention was need.

And that is what we have. Some players like change, some don’t so like everything there will be differing opinions. But you can’t claim the changes in gameplay are not intended or a side-effect, so if you don’t like that, the OP probably should make an argument why CCP’s intentions are wrong rather than point out that “my game is more challenging! make it more relaxing!” when the whole point of these changes is to make it more difficult.

Post bookmarked. See you in a year to see how well you did!

It’s not really. No one is doing these silly arenas. Almost everyone is playing the main competitive economic/warfare game that CCP conceived of so many years ago. It’s just a pet project of a dev or two, and one that has essentially failed already. At best they can use this teach as the basis start of a new AT, but it’s going to be a part of Eve that 99.95% of Eve players never engage with.

They started with the Blackout and the Drifter invasion in nullsec, although they seemed to botch that a little and had to stop that treatment. They have though made nullsec mining significantly more restricted and I have no doubt that another batch of medicine is coming nullsec’s way. I agree with you it is very much needed there!

You can argue that CCP hasn’t done a very good job of implementing their vision, but you can’t say that is not the intention.

I am convinced CCP has a completed revamped and expanded NPE ready to roll out in Trig space once the Invasion is finished and establishes where Trig space is going to be. But there is no point talking about this speculation.

I also think there will be more fun coming to make life more challenging for highsec veterans and their easy profit. CCP isn’t done yet!

It is. At least for some types of play. For multiboxing veterans things are harder with roaming trigs, as is for haulers used to just having to worry about gankers. And the upcoming quantum cores will impact highsec industrialists the hardest.

But I’ll agree that implementing their vision is going to be hard. Veterans are most capable with dealing with change and you still want to have some space for those looking for a more “relaxing” experience, and of course a place newer players can still do rewarding things. But none of this vision is served by giving Alphas access to higher yield mining ships or making the market more bot-friendly or making it so highsec is so safe you can never lose anything.

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The abyssal runners are certainly excited about how difficult the T6 areas are, especially the speed clouds!

I can’t remember what it’s called, but there’s an adage in mmo game design that asserts that any change designed to benefit new players will invariably help older players more. It’s because veteran players have the knowledge/skill/characters/equipmunk to get the most out of such changes/content.

In fact, one of the reasons people complain that every change disproportionately hurts the little guy is probably because larger groups have inherent advantages when it comes to dealing with changes and adversity. They have greater resources, more personnel, better infrastructure, more 3rd party tools, and so on and so forth. Thus, any change that doesn’t specifically hurt them, and only them, will inadvertently benefit them.


They sure did cry like babies about the blackout though.


Um, surgical strike certainly made high end PvE more dangerous. They also reduced incursion spawn rates (which has greatly increased group competition) and are adding a 6th tier to Abyssals. Seems like they’ve increased the challenge to me.

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People are only playing the main game as much as they used to. The trig stuff jams some content into select systems for a very short time. And a lot of people seemed to take part in the proving frounds when they were open. I don’t see CCP dropping it any time soon.

Except that was almost entirely done for bot hunting and was shut down as quickly as it was started.

And then they nuked the ability to gain high end minerals anywhere else to tip the balance back towards them. If a nullsec miner woke up with the income of a highsec miner he’d torpedo his keyboard through the screen. But the bulnk of nullsec income is through rattign which is still just as easy and risk free as ever.

Yeah, much is needed there, but it’s never going to happen. CCP are run by nullsec groups which is why there’s rarely any changes that signficiantly damage nulslec.

Sure I can. All I’m doing is looking at their actions and deriving what their likely goal is based on those actions. It seems to me that veterans should be given and easy ride and newer players are just fodder. I imagine that what they are really trying to do is drive new players to pay more in to get past the challenges they face while trying to ensure veterans are not put off of playing by increases in difficulty.

I doubt it. Most of the easy profit in highsec is made without undocking. My SP farm alone makes vastly more than any highsec miner can hope to make.

Such as what? No, multiboxing veterans don’t really need to worry about roaming trigs. The roaming trigs are only tough if you can’t deal damage and tank them. I’ve played about with them and an orca boosted exhumer with drones doesn’t really have to worry about them. You’d pretty much only need to care if you were running an anti-tank fit, no shield boost and didn’t have drones deployed. If I span up my old mining fleet I could pretty much take out a trig with a single volley from the drones.

A brand new miner in a barge flying completely solo without max skills on the other hand will probably have to warp out.

Hauling is the same. Any veteran hauler will be able to tank roaming trigs. It’s only heavily invaded systems with high number of trigs or scrams they need to avoid. Rookie haulers on the other hand can get destroyed on the gates in the early stages of invasion.

Only on the low end. I run quite a lot of highsec industry and it’s not going to affect me in the slightest. The people it will affect are small groups trying to run their own infrastructure. They won’t be able to defend it from blobs and it will cost to much to lose, so they’ll instead have to move. Where will they move to? One of the citadels beign run by the giant alliances.

That’s ultimately all this is. It’s a way to force smaller groups to adandon their ideas of owning their own citadels and push more profit towards the major service providers.

This I agree with. I actually support removing features from alphas since I think they are too effective in some areas.

As for trade, it shouldn’t be bot friendly but the changes to relist fees are not a good thing. The problem is that it means listing items that may not sell within the 90 day period becomes more of a risk. That means that areas where there is limited trade are more risky for players to try to build up a hub. In my view the game would be better served by decentralising trade.

If I were CCP I would fix this by giving players the option to extend an order for free if you don’t change the price. This prevents the 0.01 ISK game withough nuking traders who want to keep a station stocked with a variety of items that may sell infrequently.


It’s Malcanis’ Law, and it’s not an MMO thing it’s an EVE thing and it’s not inherently true. It’s only true if the change is also useful to veteran players. For example, if you added a change where career agents gave properly fitted T1 frigate as part of their quest line, that wouldn’t really benefit veteran players at all.

Well no, the main reason is that you vary rarely see any significant negative changes against large nullsec groups, but rookie players are repeatedly targeted with nerfs and additional barriers to overcome.


Malcanis’ law -thank you. That was driving me insane.

Mining nerfs, capital nerfs, surgical strike (which many cap owners complained about), cyno ship restictions, invasion cyno inhibitors making JF pilot’s lives more difficult, drifter attacks, and blackout -and this is just what I remember off of the top off my head. For real dude, haven’t you heard any goons complaining about how CCP hates nullsec.

The rank stupidity of penalizing players for lowering their prices is in direct conflict with a player driven economy. As I’ve said in a number of other posts on the topic, it also flies in the face of any semblance of a free market economy.

What is really running the direction of this game is the cheaters, exploiters, and huge corporations. CCPs inability to combat market bots resulted in screwing all players who list items for sale. CCPs inability to prevent structure spam results in screwing small corps and individuals who aspired to have their own structures as a measure of success. CCPs attempt to force players into PvP through a number of changes belies the fact that if a player wanted to PvP, there are plenty of opportunities. Players who don’t want to PvP have money just as green and spendable as those who do.

The infusion of the Triglavians is another attempt to ruin the solo/carebear/small corps industrialist play style. I play this game for my own reasons and I don’t need the approval or disapproval of other players to measure my accomplishments. To assume players need to feel the sting of defeat by losing ships and assets in order to properly experience the game is a mountainous pile of dung.