Do problem players have any responsibility to change their own behavior?

Communications Center General Discussion
225

OK, here we go again

From the thread he linked:
“Definitely seems so, there is enough material in all of the mails you can diagnose them properly, it’s a combination of a degree of autism, insecurity and hate and fear (the psychological root of hate is fear)
Everything of this issue has been reported to CCP by many members of horde, CCP designers responsible for these mechanics have no intensions to change mechanics for resolving this issue yet, they definitely have been blackmailed or their not seeing this as something harmful.
Despite that horde is fed up with this issue for like half a year already.(and people logging off or quit)”

In this quote he tells us he and many members of horde have asked for CCP to change these mechanics, that allow the corp spam, to solve the problem, this is asking for help.

Later in the same thread
"I’m amazed about the local forum dwellers over here justifying this kind of behavior, or horde it self has to find a way to deal with this kind of situation in some way(?)
This is gold."
So he is complaining Horde has to solve the problem themselves, because the local forum dwellers justify the behaviour (they do not help).

Not that this has anything to do with anything, once again you have chosen ONE LINE SOMEONE SAID and are now going to keep banging on about the over literal use of a word (help) without understanding that that whole thread was literally a request for help from the community to deal with something after requests to CCP for help failed.

Ramona’s response to the thread link above does not even really deal with the issue of ‘help’, she points out that that thread, rather than being an example of ‘bullying and harrasment’ is either normal mechanics OR harassment in which case GD is not the place to deal with it (file a report).

She then makes one comment that she wouldn’t be leaping to help him (with the problem he wrote a whole thread about and then reposted in this thread, once again asserting that it was bullying and harassment), and she made this comment based on eve politics and probably party in jest.

You then quoted just ONE LINE ‘I cant say Id be leaping to help’ and are now derailing the thread with irrelevant demands we show you where he asked for help.

I cant do a TLDR because that is exactly what just happened.
I can see you didn’t read the list of logical fallacies I provided in the other thread.

Get this straight, the whole quote one line and then fixate on the meaning of a specific word like you have proved something doesn’t work, because its dumb and we can all see what you are doing.

So, just in case you missed it, that is where he asked for help, and Ramonas further comment about your snipe missing her point just demonstrates

that you don’t understand a thing.

EDIT: please note the absence of name calling, labels and abuse in my post, and get down off your high horse

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Mayhaw used your post to make a dumb point, its nothing to do with anything.
I am just trying to keep things on a chill level between us, because I enjoyed the botting thread and I don’t want you to think I am but hurt about the autism meme thing.

That’s it. Literally no other agenda.

And I like the way you somehow get discobot to make quotes at just the right moment, and I like your emoji use.

Make sense now?

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Ok let’s say I posted that topic and instead a bunch of people were defending their actions they said this behaviour is not really ok, what normal people would say…
What kind of help would I expect of you than? :rofl:

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I see where this has gone.

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I think we have a communication breakdown or something?

I think normal people would say report it if you think its harassment and if it is it will get dealt with, but probably its just eve metagaming, and you wont get anyone banned. But I dunno, you said you had already reported it.

Again, normal is one of those labels that doesn’t really do much other than say ‘not like me’, but again, this might not be your point.

I don’t think most of the people in that thread were defending the peeps spamming you, they were just pointing out it wasn’t really harassment, Ramona for instance suggested you filed a report and explained GD is not the place to get it dealt with, that’s someone being helpful.

If you read this and it doesn’t make sense we might just have to agree to disagree, and only communicate with emojis, sometimes two people do just have trouble communicating you know?

ON A POSITIVE NOTE YOUR RESPONSE HERE DOES PROVE YOU WERE ASKING FOR HELP SO GG MAYHAW, wrong again

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omg please help this creature :facepalm: :whale:

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why do I need help?

EDIT- I removed the buthurt comment- trolls are not born they are made, I am not going to post in this thread for a bit as I value this community and forum and can feel myself sinking to the level of others.

SECOND EDIT BECAUSE ADDICT: would like to add one last time that mayhaws quote war ended as usual with silence, because he’s always wrong, and my mate diablo proved it for us all

OK, I’m an addict, third edit: Did you report it? Where they banned? If not then its just eve metagaming. its literally not rocket science, but meta is a word, and autism is a word, and I am still not sure if you fully understand their use.

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232

I’ve had a think about this. It seems, to me, to be authentic psychobabble. “psychobabble” is a neat word. It describes a great deal of meaningless, vain writing.

So, I have no idea what a “fixation with “the other”” means. It is about as nebulous a statement as one could make. It does sound rather like a statement of the human condition, or perhaps a goofy way of stating that it takes two sentient beings to have a discussion. You then go on to say that this “fixation” is “at the heart of abuse”. This is interesting, you conceive of abuse as a thing, with locations. Or, perhaps, as a malady, with a root cause. You do not consider it to be a subjective description of normal interactions between living organisms.

I ask you, does the rabbit “abuse” the carrot when he munches upon it? I put it to you that he does. The vile little bunny.

You go on to judge the fixation with “the other” to be malformed. This raises my curiosity: what is NOT malformed, in your opinion? What is the pure state of being from which I, in my wretched and sinful condition, have deviated?

You then conclude that this “malformed” “fixation” with “the other” is what “drives a bully to be a bully”. So, we may understand that bullies are driven by complex malformations of spirit.

This brings me back to the rabbit and the carrot.

May we conceive of the ultimate lament of the carrot, that final shriek of vegetative indignation against the malformation of rodents by the twisted creator of barnyard animals?

To be eaten is to be bullied. To eat is to bully. All who covet power seek the subjugation of their prey.

It is not that I think you are wrong, as such. I can entirely agree that, for carrots, bunny rabbits are awful people. I mean, of course they are.

My mother used to say, in her darker cheerful moods, “But what about the krill?”

What about the krill, Mayhaw? Who will speak for them, and fight against the whales who relentlessly bully them, and sow pure evil across the oceans of the world?

At what point do we stop screaming our fear at the heavens, and begin hunting our lunch?

That is a sincere question, simply because life consumes life, and if we all engaged in nebulous psychobabble, we would soon starve to death. We would be so busy lamenting the evil inherent in ourselves that we would forget to hunt, forget to breed, we would fall over in mid complaint, and expire into the dirt.

Then the carrots, and sundry root vegetables, would have their merry way with us.

I will not let that happen to you, Mayhaw. In the name of all that is holy, there will be no snowflake left behind, to be terrorized and bullied by leafy greens and their evil tubular cousins.

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In that quote, he tells us that many members of Pandemic Horde have made reports to CCP. He doesn’t say he, himself, made such a report. He’s telling us about a situation. We should infer that he knows how to ask CCP for assistance or knows people who know how. After all, some of them DID make reports to CCP according to him.

You are inferring that HE is requesting some sort of assistance . . . which he very well may be, but not in that quote.

It sounds like he is amazed that people would defend such behavior, sure. And, there does seem like some expectation of assistance there, but not from the people in General Discussion, but from CCP. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect at least some sympathy over the issue. The behavior being discussed may not be against any rules in game (not sure about that), but it’s certainly very anti-social from an out-of-game perspective.

Still, I don’t see any explicit request for anyone to help. I don’t like when people attribute statements to me that I did not make. I don’t know anybody who does.

This is a quote from the Wikipedia article about autism. Do you think it is possible that you are misunderstanding some people’s intentions on this forum or in the game? Like, sometimes I see a ship in space and it looks like it is moving towards me but it’s not moving or I think I am approaching an object, but I am actually just “aligning to a point in space”. Maybe you think The AntiChrist666 Diablo13 is kicking and screaming for HALP!, but he’s actually just trying to progress a discussion about things other people might need help with.

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For someone who picks fights on semantics, his (Mayhaw’s) entire rant is based on his misunderstanding of a single sentence.

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:sunglasses::ok_hand::ok_hand::ok_hand::ok_hand::ok_hand:

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Yeh, you don’t get it at all, I’m not inferring anything, Rmona replied to the guy and you singled out a sentence about help.

And just as your link to an economics blog about sociopathy taught me nothing I didn’t already know about sociopathy,

your WIKIPEDIA LOL link about Autism didn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know about Autism

Because I am Autistic and have a certificate and everything.

I’m not misunderstanding his post for a cry for help AT ALL.

I’m responding to you singling out an irrelevant line from someone elses post, as you always do, and demanding a response
’WHERE DID HE SAY HELP’

I then just demonstrated that objectively in that post he was asking for assistance, he has even made ANOTHER THREAD about the same thing!! asking for help with it. Its OK though. Its ok he asked for help, and its OK he was GIVEN help, and its ok he didn’t like the help and keeps making threads.

You said
"Maybe you think The AntiChrist666 Diablo13 is kicking and screaming for HALP!, but he’s actually just trying to progress a discussion about things other people might need help with."

I say
I never said anything about kicking and screaming (still not read that link to logical fallacies have you), I just reported the FACT he asked for some help with something to highlight how your reply to Ramona was ridiculous and missed the point.

YOU don’t get to make assumptions about my ability to do anything in this game or out based on a Wikipedia article pall.

FFS that was patronising and you need to accept that the way you argue on these forums is just that, nitpicking irrelevant points,

you still haven’t responded to the substance of anything I and others said when it was
’Who took the money’
instead of
’Where did he ask for help’
OK the thread was closed because trolls like you but come on?

None of this relies on my ability to ‘read people’ because where you are concerned its just semantics.

Now actually advance this discussion yourself instead of quoting one line of this post with a supposedly inciteful question, or continue demonstrating your ignorance and lack of wit.

Now I am really leaving this thread for a bit.

Wikipedia ffs get a grip.

EDIT- and yeh, I do have some sympathy for diablos issue, I just suggested in the other thread he finds another corp, I am aware that I sometimes get the wrong end of the stick you will notice I have gone out of my way to keep things civil with him and have constantly left space for him and others to correct me, I even did this with you when I first addressed you by explaining why I was talking in the second person to ‘YOU’. Others on these forums seem to get it, its not personal with me, I am about the discussion.

Go over my post history and see if your assumption about my social skills based on a Wikipedia article is warranted why don’t you?

Wikipedia FFS

OKAY- final edit and Ive really thought about this.

Its too easy to cry bully. But when someone is really being bullied, its hard for them to get help. Why?
Mayhaw’s been crying bully none stop, none stop.

But he totally misrepresented what I was saying about Diablo, with the addition of ‘kicking and screaming’ and that whole interpretation he put on it.
Then, knowing I am Autistic and he isn’t, he used a simplistic Wikipedia definition of an extremely complex
developmental disorder
to imply that my judgement was off, and compared my ability to understand others on the forums and engage in debate on the same level as NTs like himself, with a simple perception issue in a spaceship game.

He also involved a third party, Diablo, as if he was saying, ‘you don’t understand love, Diablo really meant’, coopting this other guy in his attempt to invalidate everything I had said.

Based on my diagnosis. Which he learnt abouton Wikipedia.

Is that bullying? I don’t know, but I do know I don’t feel bullied, because anyone can see he’s cueless and clutching at straws YET

objectively, if someone was less confident than myself, and less sure of themselves, and was, like me, going out of their way to behave in a socially acceptable way in these forums because they were aware they had aspergers or similar, and unlike me they did not have 39 years of experience to tell them when they are being out of order, and a wife and friends to say ‘read this am I being a knob’

Then they WOULD feel bullied.

So was it bullying?

Serious question- the thread is about problem players being responsible for their own behaviour
Well they aren’t, CCP and the community are, otherwise Mayhaw would have biomassed himself 2 hours ago.

And Mayhaw I know you wont understand why this has had the effect it has, because I don’t think you do empathy like everyone else either, or rather you probably do, but just let that all fly out the window when you post on the internet.

How much isk do I need to raise to have him run out of the game?

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He just isn’t as clever as he thinks he is, and he is not used to people picking up on this and taking advantage of it.

The whole use of ‘other’ earlier, well I don’t think that’s psychobabble as such, when used coherently and in context it can have meaning, but I sure think his use of these terms reveals he’s probably a humanities undergraduate at some second tier university who just read the introduction to de grammatology and one zizek article.

JOKE

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239

I just added a further edit to that last post cause I’m pissed.
Bullies I can deal with, self righteous whight-knights who use their moral highground to bully and humiliate others can die in a fire as far as I am concerned, IN GAME OF COURSE.

because I am not a sociopath.

Wikipedia ffs

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Im pretty sure he does what he does to get a rise.

Nothing more.

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Sorry I’m a bit confused here…could someone briefly summarise whats happening please?

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You dont want to know. Its madly off topic and bait-littered.

Suffice to say it contains a very good example of bad behaviour.

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Basically a demonstration of the topic, we SEE what some tried to say
very meta, very eve

needless to say, it turned out it wasn’t the non-consensual pvp guys who were the problem players

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No definition of what constitutes problematic can be made, it is different for each person, what the issue is that people cannot avoid aggressive or mentally ill folks here, without seeing the person in person and their behavior it is impossible to avoid being bothered by these players.

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I don’t have a problem with psychoanalyses that condemns people as sociopaths. A casual reading of history supports the contention that human beings are brutal and irrational to each other, that they prefer power to grace.

The problem I have with psychobabble is the general presumption that it is possible to NOT be a sociopath. Who are these pure beings, whom power does not corrupt?

If they do exist, they are almost certainly going to nerf the loki’s ridiculously OP bonus to projectile damage. And nobody wants that.